I've registered and am looking forward to my first crack at a prize...
This seems to be a better system than elance.com or allfreelancework.com
I hope the quality of jobs offered reflects the more creative community they are aiming at.

To be honest this really does sound tempting – I do however have one, quite large, reservation. I am completely against free-pitches, always have been.

I know this isn't strictly free-pitching in a sense but what we do have is a pool of talented designers [or creatives] producing work for which they may not see a penny in return. It's all good and well if you win the pitch and get paid but it's a different story if not.

I am not writing this because of a lack of confidence in my work, far from it. I am usually first to step up for a challenge. The thing that specifically worries me about this is that it puts the message out there to clients that this process of not paying for unchosen work is ok. Not just is it ok, but the industry is supporting it.

Now I may have the wrong end of the stick here – it is late and I am tired. I do not want to start off a[nother] free-pitch topic because I understand that everyone has their opinions on that.

I would love to sign up and have a go but I just would not feel comfortable going against my principles. I wish everyone who does take part, the best of luck.

I agree with StevePerry. If what they're asking for is speculative work, it is extremely unfair to the designers involved.

There's a whole website devoted to this subject:

I recently lost a large contract because the client asked me to submit a mockup design, and I refused. I explained that I had a policy not to do that, and why, but there were two other bidders who were willing, and one of them got the job.

The other one wasted a lot of time and effort.

If I was in the same position again I would still make the same decision.

Arvana
arvanadesign.com

and say that this is the most horrible idea anyone could possibly come up with. If you have any self-respect, common sense or respect for the ad industry, you will avoid sites like this like it was the plague.

Doing work for free in the hopes that some half-assed client will hire you for future work is not only frowned upon in our business, but it's just plain insanely stupid business sense. Not to mention that it hurts the industry as a whole, and puts your own future in jeopardy.

I'm against free pitches as well. I see this site as a place to fill my free time and a place to work on clients that will look good in my porti, even if they don't buy the creative. If I ever pitch on business on this site, I will do so only if I'm comfortable with the fact that client may not chose my work even if it's the best among the pool of work submitted.

As I see there will be about a dozen creatives who have a good feel for what clients are looking for and they will take 70 percent of all the jobs with their slightly less than industry average work. The rest will be spread accross very bad creative to the very best.

I think if holotof wants to be sucessful, the best way to do it is to encourage award winning work on this site.

It seems there is interest in holotof from cb members. The art director guy who runs holotof wrote me an e:

At the time you published your kind blog, there were 135 registered users. That was just 2 hours ago. In 120 minutes your blog got me 30 new subscribers. These come from USA, Canada, Uruguay, Australia, New Zealand, Netherlands and Great Britain.

It is a site where clients pitch their work for creatives and the winner takes the prize.

Operative words here?

‘Winner’ and ‘Prize’

So what Ivan is describing is basically a spec competition atmosphere.

More recently on the net advertisers can upload their briefs. Creatives give quotes. Advertiser chooses one to work with.

This is fair because no one is working on spec, but that’s not what holotof is doing.

holotof is different:
1 Advertisers decide how much they want to pay.
2 Brief gets to thousands of creatives.
3 Advertisers receive tons of ideas.
4 Advertiser chooses the winner and creative gets paid.

So, creatives work on spec to ‘give’ tons of ideas for free, but only the ‘winner’ gets paid. Sounds like the only 'winner' is the client as not everyone wins every time. But in all actuality, even the client is the loser.

The way this is described is working on spec, pure and simple. Working on the speculation of winning.

There are some excellent blog posts describing working on spec. Andy Rutledge has a recent one that is interesting
http://www.andyrutledge.com/redesign-contest.php

Robert Wurth has a useful article written with the client in mind
"Why Speculation Hurts" http://www.no-spec.com/?page_id=78

Catherine (cat) Morley
Project Manager of:
NO!SPEC - http://www.no-spec.com
Creative Latitude - http://www.creativelatitude.com
Designers who blog - http://www.designers-who-blog.com

same kinda idea as www.freelancerprojects.com. although i think FP is mostly UK based.

Richard Ramsay :: Graphic Designer

I'm having trouble enough getting clients with contracts to pay in my local area. It's a sad state in our industry. Many clients believe that all we do is tap on keys and move a mouse around. How hard can it be, right? The industry is overloaded and many companies prey on young designers just like Andy Rutledge points out. I've poured creative energy down the drain more than once thinking a payment was around the corner. It's so disappointing to get nothing in addition to being creatively spent. If I run out of work again, I've decided to take on part-time job in a different industry that's doing well before I do one more spec job. The economy is tight-tight-tight right now with the high cost of energy. I guarantee you that many companies will stiff the creative long before they get rid of their SUV and turn the heat down.

i've dealt with a few freelance design site..
and i have two wordss about it..

NEVER AGAIN!!

that's right, i said NEVER! "but, but, never say never!" haha!! watch me.. "NEVER AGAIN!!"

i've spent time on sites like this, and it's a slap in the face. I, like anyone else, have confidence in my work. I don't just slap together a design cause i happen to have free time. I sit there and think it through, sketch about a dozen ideas, then work out the kinks and bumps of the ones i feel are the strongest for the clients needs. last thing i need to do is work something out so that the client can do what has happened in the past "hmmm i like A and B, but i can only pick one.. so i'll pick B (me being A gets screwed) and i'll have mr.B incorporate some of mr.A's ideas"

i'm tired of loosing freelance work at no profit to me over some "ideal freelancing site"

avoid it. that's all i can say, save the headache, save the time for a client, and save being ripped off!

It's nice to know the trends being requested by prospects and how much they are willing to pay for it (the prize). That does not mean one has to pitch, however, sometimes the request is very simple to do with minimal effort (some old rejected ideas in the volt, hehe)..

I'll go ahead and register :)

Waleed
www.waleedsgallery.biz

Maybe it is a matter of in which side of the world you live... and also of the luck you've had -as Woody Allen says in "Match Point".

I live in Latin America, in a small country (not Argentina, Mexico or Brazil) and I love the idea behind holotof, because -hopefuly- it will give me the chance to work for major brands that lived only in my dreams.

Also -of course- for the extra cash that is really hard to get in my zone.

I'll will not have the time to get into every pitch, but I plan to choose the ones I like and give those my best effort and have fun. Maybe, there lies the chance I've been waiting.

And as Waleed says, I have tons of great rejected ideas I can fix and submit. If I win, OK. If I loose, well... the idea remains mine, so I see it as playing the lottery and getting your money back in case of not winning. ;)

The sites you've mentioned do not worked for us. Advertisers will always choose Creative pros from larger markets over us, even if our prices are lower. We have tried them a lot with no results. Frustrating. In this new system, it seems that my ideas will be evaluated disregarding who I am, where do I live...

Those of you who can reject speculative work are lucky. I do not envy you, but you are very lucky. All my colleagues here has signed without any doubt and are thrilled waiting for the first pitch to appear.

This makes me think off all the talented creative people living in small countries like mine (Costa Rica): they will do the holotof, for sure! So don't get too radical about specs... you might end asking "Who moved my cheese?

;)

Sof1a.

Sounds like a way to waste a lot of time and drive the cost down for our industry.

Sign me up!

"Maybe it is a matter of in which side of the world you live."

Sorry, that one doesn't wash for me. I've lived in Thailand for over one year now, before that it was Brunei Darussalam for 9 years. Yes, both are not rock bottom (I imagine the same as you get), but unless you are looking at cost of living thrown in, neither do they pay top dollar or even medium. Even with that in mind, I wouldn't join in on a way of working that treats our industry in this manner.

"I live in Latin America, in a small country (not Argentina, Mexico or Brazil) and I love the idea behind holotof, because -hopefuly- it will give me the chance to work for major brands that lived only in my dreams."

If you believe you are going to get a shot at major brands working this way, IMO, you need a MUCH more serious marketing plan! And come on, this is the age of the internet, I'm sure if you put your mind to it, you could come up with better ways to make money then joining in on a lottery.

Truthfully, I believe you are being short sighted about the Design industry. Why contribute to methods that would tear the industry down? Why not support positive ways to build it up? In the end (and middle and sideways), working on spec helps no one. Not the client, and certainly not the designer. You'd be much better served if you put your efforts toward a decent business plan instead of trying out a 'get money quick and dirty' method.

As the project manager of NO!SPEC I get emails daily from designers who have worked on spec at some point in their career, telling me that eventually they started feeling used and dirty so swore off the practice. These designers come from all over, and not just in western countries. Live and learn.

So i'm sitting here, thinking about this damn Holotof site, and i decide to look at it again. I'm STILL trying to figure out what the hell good this is to the designers?

1) there's yet to be an offer.
2) it's still all about specs (we've all determined specs are BAD!)
3) the site has a list of suggested prices, which by the way are almost all a slap in the face.
3a) how can you classify some of the categories as being "local" "regional" etc.etc. and be fixed about it. since when does a website catter to only one country or continent? i'd love to see the fool who says "i'll charge you for your website cause it's only for one country" it's not called the "WORLD wide web" for nothing folks!!
4)did i mention there's still not a SINGLE offer?
5) calling it a "PRIZE" and not a PRICE just goes to show it's one big lottery of SPECS!
5a) did i not mention we'd determined specs are bad?
6) there's a RULES section that starts with "FRIENDLY RULES" NOOooooooooo, they should be LEGAL RULES! Yes, i know there's a link to the legal jargon, but common, don't treat it like a childish matter!
7) cost to the "client" is 500$ for projects that are up to 4,999$ in cost. then when you backtrack to the suggested "PRIZES" you see that most of them are from the 500-1000 +/- price range. my first thought was "wait a minute, so Holotof is making 400$ on my 500$ lottery winning that cost me ___ hrs to put together and will most likely yield me NOTHING unless i get lucky and win"
8) they have no clients.. oh wait, i said that..
9) i clicked on the link at the bottom saying "developped by bluemetal". uhm.. weird.. a website for a company that just says "merry christmas" with a house covered in snow. doesn't say much if you ask me.

all that to say, this is all starting to look like a bad joke on designers.

i said it once, i'll say it again..

i'm avoiding this one like the plague

no one is FORCING anyone to pitch for free. If you've got a good idea, the job is one you'd be interested in and you'd like a chance at a prize, then go for it. If, however, you feel that the client is the 'winner' and that you're being used and abused for your concepts, then keep them to yourself. So what if the client gets heaps of ideas? They don't own yours unless it's paid for. If you don't have the time or inclination to pitch, then you don't have to. All i'd like to see is some quality projects offered that I can decide to partake in or not. And if the client gets lots of concepts to choose from ... then clever client, I say.

why, as a service industry, do we insist on giving away work for free? it's the mentality we have that ruins our future as an industry. we consistently go out of our way to bend over backwards in order to satisfy clients. has anyone else in an other service industry ever gone out of their way, even done work for free, for you?

did your stockbroker not charge you commisions when the stocks he chose for your portfolio didn't perform as well as you thought they would?

did that lawyer who failed to resolve your case in the manner you wished not charge you a penny?

by participating in this arrangement you are basically saying you do not value your work because you are willing to give it away for free. that statement you are making devalues the industry as a whole because there is a perception that there are always designers willing to work on spec.

if no one did work on spec, we'd all get paid for our work at rates we could all support ourselves on. so don't do spec work, and don't promote sites like this.

Living in third World Contries dosen´t mean that you have to prostitute your time, effort and ideas for some dimes, and a chance to grow to be good and win a major international account, I live in Guatemala and we are good down here and we have being doing animation for Nardia and other movies, and we have a pretty good advertising industry that is blooming, (many chilean and argentinians get hired to work here), and naturally we all are very visual, and dont know about of one of my schoolmates that is not willing to give a big shoot to an opportunity that matters, but what I understand that you get that with hard work, real work that is, and effort and not giving away your work as fair tickets and playing on an arcade, aim the shoot you win system, no that´s not the point, we all have tough finantial times, no matter where you live and where you are, but our profesion is a very imporant keystone in the communication industry,that is not to be put as a hot dog stand, and make it cheap for some that are not willing to make an effort, either to pay or to fish for money, is your grade of knoldege and preparation and discipline that gets you to the roof, see the Salvadorian guy desingning for Disney for examle he is not giving away his time and brains the shark in Nemo (Bruce is C.A. made) is not for free, so it´s a lie that we can´t not reach the roof and need spec work for food. This calls for some dignity and some respect for our effort we spend preparing us, late night doing homework and going to school, and our work to end doing this kind of work, we have to be educated on this matter not just to respond lightly on this, It´s our life that is at stake for crying out loud! come on and when I graduate I would certanly never do this of loosing my dignity for some "dolores" dollars, to see if I can have a big fat account... I signed for nospec! And I would rather have a basket of tortillas than to give away my work for free. You have to be good and have a work plan to reach your goals.... and practice makes the masters...
Sorry if I got mad but living iin Paradise dosent mean to diminish your self...

Well always have Paris! Humphrey Bogart

was just on the site again..
i think they need new a new name, so here's some ideas.

here's my suggestion holotofnotin.com

I’ve been reading all the comments. The level of aggression is surprisingly high compared to any other message posted here.

Why?

It is just a new idea. We are supposed to understand the value of ideas. We do not have to endorse every new idea, but we have to respect them. Aren’t we all creative people here?

Holotof is a wonderful idea. Maybe it is not for all, but our planet is huge, with lots of markets and cultures. Maybe it is not perfect yet, but we have to give this idea the chance to blossom.

It is not a virus on my Mac. It is not spam in my mailbox. It is not a farewell to traditional business.

It is just another alternative. You may take it. You may leave it. It may work. It may die.

I will wait and give it a chance.

Peace to you all.

- Rahid.

THIS WILL BE LIKE ALL THE OTHERS. A BUNCH OF HACKS WILLING TO DO A LOGO FOR A COMPANY FOR 25 DOLLARS. DONT WASTE YOUR TIME. TAKE PRIDE IN YOUR SELF AND YOUR WORK. DONT WHORE YOURSELF OUT. TAKE PRIDE

SORRY ABOUT THE ALL CAPS. I AM JUST FED UP WITH PLACES LIKE THIS.

SOME MAY HAVE MADE A DECENT AMOUNT OF WORK THIS WAY BUT ITS JUST NOT FOR ME

GOOD LUCK TO ANYONE WHO DOES IT.

_______________________________
Design is all around us.
check out http://www.createsdesign.com
http://www.createsdesign.com/blog

Hi Ivan:

Just to let you know that holotof's first pitch was posted yesterday.

We are now over 830 Creatives from 68 countries. I guess the pitch will produce a fair amount of ideas for the client.

I'll keep you posted.

Un abrazo,
Robby!

talk about something that NEVER took off.

not shocked one bit, and i'm sorta glad it didn't. last thing we needed was another site for spec work.

(i know this is an old post, was just looking through stuff and this one made me laugh..)