Advice...
onegirlcreative (1090 pencils) | Wed, 2009-01-21 20:23OK guys, please don't get pissy with me, as I know the "rules" and etiquette of design.
However, I just had an older client, someone that I have worked with a few years ago, contact me and ask me to create some logo designs on spec, with the understanding that an immediate payment would be made upon these spec logo designs.
I have never been into this and I always tell potential clients that I don't do spec work. However, when he's a client, what do you do? How do you approach it?
I don't want to do this, and really have no intention of doing it, but how do you approach it without being offensive? I don't want to be obnoxious and send him that link to the website, no-spec.com. Not sure if he would get that, if you know what I mean.
I would rather just tell him nicely why I won't do spec work, and possibly an alternative? What would be your approach method?
Thanks all.
Suzanne
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"I am not sick. I am broken. But I am happy as long as I can paint." ~ Frida Kahlo
Commenting on this Forum topic is closed.
Take your car into your local tire dealer. Tell them to put on 4 new tires so you can drive them around to see if you like them.
Make sure you tell them that you'll be sure and come back and pay for them if you do.
Seriously. That's what your client is asking of you, and they probably don't even realize it. Please educate them as to how designers work or direct them to the nearest art school. Maybe they can find a hungry student to help them out.
Terrell Thornhill
e-zign Design Group
You said he asked you to design some logos on spec, but that he understands that he'll be paying for them after. That's not spec, that's a normal job for an existing client. Now if he's saying he'll pay for them IF he likes them, that's spec - and a complete waste of your time.
I think you know what you have to do, you just don't want to do it. Go ahead and tell him... you'll only be hurting yourself if you don't.
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I always, always ask for some sort of deposit up front in addition to a signed contract. He is not implying that. These are his exact words:
"Would you be willing to work with me on putting together some potential logos on spec for a presentation next Friday, the 30th? Ideally, immediately after that meeting we could have a selection and turn it from a spec project to an immediate payment project."
Basically he isn't guaranteeing a payment to me, just saying that "ideally" he would pay me. I am not comfortable doing this and don't know how to word it. I know it's wrong, and like Terry said, I have no desire to do this for him. I don't believe in spec work—never have, never will. But since I have worked with this client before, and he has even referred two other clients to me (one was a total deadbeat, but that's for thread entirely). A part of me hates to walk away from this project, but the other part of me has been screwed in the past doing something similar to this, and I swore I wouldn't do it again.
I need the money, but as you read above from his comments, there is no guarantee that he will like the designs I submit or even pay me for those designs. Which I am not comfortable with.
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"I am not sick. I am broken. But I am happy as long as I can paint." ~ Frida Kahlo
www.onegirlcreative.com
from what you said, i think jim is right. as long as he's willing to pay regardless, it's not spec work. but it's *still* at risk work, w/o a contract. even if you trust him. even if it's a rush job, just a quick email/fax of a signed letter of intent w/some basic parameters will protect you.
Don't forget, you're running a business so communicate with the client with that in mind. Just tell him, "listen, I'd be happy to work with you. Let's set up a meeting and sign a contract...my hourly rate is X". Either he pays you what you want or he declines. Couldn't be simpler, eh?
Then you don't have to do spec work and it's the client that declines, not you. Win-win. Don't let him "guilt" you into wasting your time on work he might just steal anyway (ie. the I'll pay you when you're done part).
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Natobasso
dirtandrust.com
"Powerpoint is not a design application"
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Dirt and Rust
I can always count on you for good advice. Mr. Kiwi! =P
But, the downside is, he doesn't live locally near me. He lives out of state, but I could always send him my contract via e-mail, like I have done in the past, and they have just faxed it to me.
Thanks for your advice. I will keep you guys posted.
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"I am not sick. I am broken. But I am happy as long as I can paint." ~ Frida Kahlo
www.onegirlcreative.com
Contracts can be signed digitally. Welcome to the wonderful world of international business! :) Glad you got the money you deserve (I read all your posts, just wanted to respond to this one). :)
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Natobasso
dirtandrust.com
"Powerpoint is not a design application"
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Dirt and Rust
I basically told him that I would love nothing more than to work with him on this project, however, in order to do so in good conscience, I require a minimum deposit up front in order to proceed with this project. I explained to him, as a businessman, that he should understand that I will not work on spec—doing the work without some sort of compensation up front. And I hope he understands this and is willing to work with me on my terms.
I guess we'll see what he says...
If he doesn't agree, oh well. I still have my job. LOL
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"I am not sick. I am broken. But I am happy as long as I can paint." ~ Frida Kahlo
www.onegirlcreative.com
i guess i misunderstood.
i think your approach is right. even if it's not with a deposit, a contract and guarantee of some payment for your time is a minimum requirement, whether it's an hourly or XX amount for you to give him XX amount of work. if you have a relationship with the guy, hopefully he'll understand. and if he doesn't, hopefully he'll give you the opportunity to explain your position to him.
After I sent that e-mail to him this morning, he responded basically saying he completely understood and was more than willing to give me a deposit in order to hire me to do this project with him.
I sent him an invoice via PayPal and he paid immediately.
So it all worked out very well. Thanks guys for your advice!
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"I am not sick. I am broken. But I am happy as long as I can paint." ~ Frida Kahlo
www.onegirlcreative.com
Honey, if this guy is old enough to remember the Great Deprssion (or at least to have heard about it) he will understand that everything you do has to be remunerative. You just don't have the luxury in these perilous economic times to do anything on spec. Or you could phrase it that you don't have the time to do spec work, and need to keep it that way in these perilous economic times, blah blah blah. You can say, "Our past work together tells me you'll be happy with my designs, as I'm sure you'll agree. Let me suggest that you provide me with my customary depost of $__. When you settle on the design you want to use going forward, the balance will come due than. Fair enough?"
Good luck -- glad you've got repeat business. Build on it!
Mara
yay! Don't be afraid to be assertive. :)
I would just tell him you'll throw the designs together at your regular hourly billable rate and work out a final payment plan with him once the desired design has been selected.
That way you've made it clear that you expect be paid for your time regardless the outcome.