BBQ fund raiser ticket / flyer thingy...
wgzn (2105 pencils) | Thu, 2012-06-21 19:23a 9x4-ish "ticket" for a BBQ fundraiser event for an educational scholarship foundation.
(you all may remember the RWP logo i posted a while back.
aimed at affluent, community active business types in a small to medium sized texas city (bryan / college station)
this is the first draft of an actual work in progress
thoughts?
Commenting on this Image will be automatically closed on August 16, 2012.
I mostly love it! Here's what I don't love:
1. The address is too hard to read.
2. The "Through your support" font is too much like an old IBM Selectric typeface -- which isn't old enough to be certifiaby retro. But then, I'm 64.
3. The "f" and "o" in "for more information..." is going transparent because of the way you have the levels stacked; unless that's a design element you want to keep, I would suggest you fix that.
4. The two pale stars at the bottom hang from the same horizontal line and makes me itch a little. Lower both, then lower the right-hand one even more.
4. Not too sure about combination of distressed and clean fonts. If someone else here says "OMG, too many fonts," I might sell all that I have and follow them.
But back to the love:
1. The way you've done the date is very stylish. I love love love it, and absolutely will steal it someday. You have been warned. ;)
2. The event logotypes look great. I could see someone wishing for leading, but I wouldn't necessarily sell all that I have and follow them, if you get my drift.
3. Overall, yesh. Love.
If I sound a leetle bit off, it's because I spent all afternoon in 100-degree heat, picking blueberries, and I think I fried part of my brain.
ps: Not sure how the logo works in this piece. Could you use it on the flip side and just refer to the foundation on this side in whatever font you wind up using for the pitch?
pps: Before I became a professional designer, I did fund-raising professionally and developed a disclaimer that I think might be more appealing than what you've used. I use it in all the charity invitations I design now. If you have any flexibility about that with your client, you might want to say, "[Name of charity] is a 501(c)3 charitable organization. Your ticket purchase is tax-deductible to the full extent provided by law."
Mara
all good points! will address by number:
1. yeah, the date, address, location was the hardest part. when i came up with the date treatment, i kinda got drunk on that part and let the address twist in the wind. client agreed with you. and its been changed to franklin gothic. and made larger (same with the body paragraph)
2. AWESOME reference. my dad worked for IBM all my growing up years, so i am intimately familiar with the old selectrics. and still have parts from them floating around here and there.
as a matter of fact, i credit my fathers IBM career with my current career. repairing copiers was a large part of his workload. and they would have to run several hundred sheets of blank paper through as test after completing repairs. so instead of throwing it away (as they did in the 1970s) he just brought all that paper home for his son to draw on.
so, when i discovered "orator" i had an immediate liking to it. and now use it on my business card and website.
3. yep. thats an accident
4. noted. i thought it added a little bit of symmetry to the bottom of the page. will try your suggestion.
4#2 i was aware of that risk. but i was going for a "hatch show" or even disorganized metal type drawer look. so i can at least say its intentional and designed into the piece.
thanks for the input. will post updates in the next couple of days.
I got the Hatch Show look right away. You adapted it nicely.
Orator! Yes, that's the one I was remembering. Ha ha. IBM Selectrics. I had a giant RED one! :)
Mara
Overall WG, I like it very much. I agree with much of Mara's detailed response.
Good hierarchy of information and love the overall style. The jury's out with me on the 'through your support' type, but it's growing on me.
Really like the date format too, but my only concern with it is the white text, which i think gets lost. If it was me, I'd try two shades of the same green for the for the '08 16' the two shades to differentiate between the 08 and 16, then the same system with black / gray for the 20 &12.
Also bring the 'for more information' text to the foreground in front of the left hand star.
Other than that - good to go. Love it! :) Loving the woodcut cow too!!
>> Cookie cut the chaos >>
yeah, the white part of the date was something i figured would be a discussion point. it actually came from a version where i had a darker strip across the page to contain the date / location section. i just never progressed it after deleting the strip...
i tried doing the white in black, then pulling back on the opacity - but the client didnt care for the resulting "gray"
the alternating shades of green thing may be the way to go. will definitely give that a shot.
id considered an outline on the white. but since nothing else is outlined that may be kind of out of place. and i even considered a drop shadow - GASP! but wanted to maintain the flat look throughout...
interesting side note. this was originally going to be a "digital" (i.e. glorified color copy) job. but since its wound up as a simple 2-color design. we MAY print it offset and find some groovy paper... waiting to hear back from the printer on that...
This is your chance to play with French Speckletone, my favorite paper and a natural for Hatch looks.
Mara
Hmm, sounds like a breed of chicken... ;) Seriously though, I'll have to look that one up. Thanks!
>> Cookie cut the chaos >>
Liking the website too!..
http://www.frenchpaper.com/
>> Cookie cut the chaos >>
Did I lie? Aren't they wonderful?
Mara
-think logo size and place are wrong.
-margins are chaos
-spacing between paragraphs, chaos too.
-overall balancing need improvement, the day and place occupy too much area and upper text block seem too much compressed.
yes I'm brazilian xD
i disagree. at least relative to the stated design intent of the piece.
well, I disagree again.
you said you started to make it for web...
it's exactly as we see: the first half is overstuffed... and lost some balance at the end. I appreciate some blank spaces at top half.
the logo is placed as any image to fill the space, sorry but I think other people will agree with me too.
about margins: it's not about disaligned white margins, it's ok. it's about text block. you can misalign as you want but in this case some pieces are aligned and others don't. I feel as a lack of concept decision. You chose computer centered paragraph for location and time.
I love deconstruction, every critique I encourage people to deconstruct webpages, grids, to drop out "text processor alignment" but it requires a bit more freedom and consistency at same time.
yes I'm brazilian xD
"you said you started to make it for web..."
no. actually. i didnt.
by "digital" i meant digital printing. not sure if we are just not understanding each other...
the whole piece is supposed to have different alignment all the way down:
centered
ragged right
justified
centered
i think my problem with your assessment may have to do again with differences in language. because once again, im having a hard time making sense of some of what you're saying
whatever, other people here understand perfectly what I write, I'm trying my best to understand you. xD
still if you didn't start it for web, you could analyze overall ballancing anyway because I see too much crunched to top left (or centered), don't know if your design is making people have interest to read the entire poster, or it feels like the design is bad applied on the entire paper size.
you can rotate a little bit the squares and elements (text or figures), for example to feel less "text editor" feeling.
I feel this design like a embalmed mummy moving on it stone thumb.
too much stony.
yes I'm brazilian xD
i dunno qwerty, i think you and i just come from completely different planets.
"you can rotate a little bit the squares and elements (text or figures), for example to feel less "text editor" feeling..."if by this, you mean select something and simply rotate a few degrees. i have to again strongly disagree. i think that looks kind of haphazard or like "word art" and far more "text editor" if by that you mean - straight out of illustrators type tool.
It's not about planets it's about behaviours. Some people here and I, we had repaired that you're not open to honestly discuss. You don't need to accept what we suggest but I repaired you rebate our suggestions replying exactly what we seen wrong on your design as you have repaired it before our posting. Very strange and pathetic behaviour, then I think you don't deserve any help or suggestions from now on. Good luck man xD
yes I'm brazilian xD
i never said you were wrong. i said i disagree. i will refute a critique if i find it ungrounded due to context, overal design direction or simply personal or cutural differences.
as you will notice, right out of the gate. i acknowledged and accepted the first two critiques.
the problem here qwerty (as usual) is that you always have to be right. you are incapable or simply unwilling to acknowledge that there are cultural differences in perception. specifically regarding your "text editor" observation. you think what ive done looks like [if i understand your point] desktop publishing. i think that the result of your suggestion (which i did try as it seemed reasonable), looks significantly more so. but that could be completely related to the work weve seen around us.
again you telling me about you.
I'm not alone as you want to qualify me everytime you try.
Other people comments here said the same I wrote and this is not the first time.
see ya
yes I'm brazilian xD
im not discussing your opinion. im discussion YOUR behavior.
Well first off - the design is interesting. So good job on that. But I think Qwerty nailed it - the balance is totally out of whack. Compare the very loose bottom to the very tight top. Even the margins - you have a tiny one at the top where everything is crammed in and a huge one at the bottom where there is already plenty of air. Generally there is way too much space wasted where it's not needed - the massive leading/tracking on the Selectric body copy, the disclaimer at the bottom, the HUGE date...
My answer is simple... enlarge the cow to the entire width. You might also make the "$20" part a little taller. That should bring the baseline of "fund raiser" right to about the halfway point on the ticket. Move the logo to the bottom and make everything else fit down below.
so basically art, what youre saying is "the design is interesting. but everything about it is wrong"
well. i think thats ludicrous. if you dont like it. just say so. but just to make sure. i tried everything you suggested in your simple answer. and it was totally wrong. what the peice then said was
BIG FUCKING COW!
inaugural bbq for something i am unaware of...
...
(didnt even notice fund raiser as im still tormented by the gargantuan cow. and its pinned there in the static center of the page)
...
hey, whats that? a logo down there?
lets take a design that had a pretty well laid our hierarchy and just fuck it all up.
so...
again, im going to have to disagree.
but i guess one persons rhythm and hierarchy is another persons randomness and chaos.
from my point of view. my goal is to get the viewer to the key points quickly and keep them as stimulated as possible.
i can see why qwerty and art feel the way they do. but i totally disagree, especially within the full context of the piece...
All I'm saying is use the space better - not "redesign". There's a difference. You see it too. Do the eye squint test and look how heavy the top of that piece is to the bottom.
don't waste your time.
yes I'm brazilian xD
I think a bit of positivity could come out of their critiques though. The margins aren't exactly "great", intended or not they're not really helping push any sort of ground breaking artwork but only adding to a bit of the clutter. The type of distressed tight-leaded type contrasting with the open leading is a bit too much for me and as Mara suggested the white fades out. How about a nice light gray there and a darker gray for something like the BBQ line given its so bold?
The address is also difficult to see compared to everything else if we're talking about hierarchy. It's on there for a reason and although it may not be as important as what the event is, it's where it is and it blends between everything else bold and strong.
to give some respect to those complaining about margins. you are to a degree correct.
there are several reasons for this:
1. my intent of the design was to look kind of loose. almost like a proof or like an inexperienced press man had printed it. i always liked to keep the first few test passes off a press job. before they get all the colors and registration nailed down. that just always looked neat to me. and sometimes i try to work a little looseness into places where i think it might be perceived as interesting...
2. this piece as presented was just a proof of concept to show the client overall vibe. and indeed ive not put a lot of (any really) time in refining it. aside from the date part everything is completely first gen. pick a font, move it into place and go.
Ah. That first point (wanting to look like a first print from an inexperienced press man) is probably more backstory than most viewers will bring to your piece ;) I know what you meant, though, by going for the Hatch look.
I get what others are saying about the placement of the logo. It bothers me a bit, too, which is why I asked if there were going to be a flip side to this piece, like a mailer versus a poster, that would give you a way to use it outside the otherwise Hatchy look, which it totally doesn't go with. That would, of course, leave a big hunk of "whaaaa?" right there, which you might want to fill by moving Brazos Center (stacked) to there. Then you could enlarge and darken the address where it already is.
I do see the spacing issue at the bottom edge. You could probably just move the whole kit and kaboodle down about a quarter-inch to fix that. And with a slight repositioning of the stars, as I mentioend earlier, and making the address more readable, there you go.
Even though a lot of us have picked on this piece to death, I still really like it. And I'm still going to swipe that date treatment :)
Mara
Just to clarify - I'm not referring to the margins only - I'm talking about the entire design. Just hold your hand up over the top half and the bottom half and compare them. The top is jam packed with sh*t and the bottom is empty. WG sees it too - he tried to compensate by putting in that gigantic date which is even larger than the headline.
i guess some of us just have radically different methods of storytelling. the top and bottom parts are totally different parts of the story. i treated them differently and separately on purpose
I like all. Very nice work wgzn. I'm a sucker for this kind of aesthetic. My first impression is the color scheme should be white, black RED instead of GREEN. Could be worth a look.
Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.
i wouldnt disagree with that, except for the fact that the clients brand color is that green ; )