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jozefk's picture

Hello to everybody!
This is my first time I'm posting something in this website :)
Wish to hear some feedback from you guys.
The web site is really nice and good. A lot of great examples and works I saw here already. And also, I see so many great designers here.
Anyway, thanks a lot in advance for any feedback!

Best,
Jozsef

| business card
natobasso's picture

Simplify

Hi there and welcome! I'm glad you've posted; wish I could say I liked what you've done here.

Here's some ideas: I'm not enamored with this card design. The all caps font is hard to read, the red and black clash, and the overall design is very dated and not very interesting or good looking. Remove the photo of yourself -- not necessary. And the font treatment on 'Graphic Designer' seems out of place next to a keyboard.

In short: Simplify your design.

You might back up and do some research on good business card design. Find some good samples here:

http://creativebits.org/cool_business_card_designs

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Powerpoint is not a design application

archmedia's picture

clarify things..

I'm going to assume you're in Maine cause of the fax, and that the Oregon number is cause it's a cell. This might seriously either confuse people/potential client, or make them wonder how serious you are about being in one city vs. another. The problem with this is it leads to fears that you might just take the money and run.

Other then that, Natobasso gave some good points to start with..

keep us posted.
____________________________________________
Architectural Technician - Multimedia Designer
www.ArchMedia.us

ladylee's picture

Yikes.

The first thing I see that is going to cause you a problem, is the border around the card. You should typically try and stay away from this (especially since yours are very thin), because when you go to get the card printed, and it gets cut, you have to allow for the standard cutting error, which is very noticeable if your card has borders..they won't match at all, and it looks very unprofessional and tacky. You definitely want to lose the picture/choose a new font...Honestly the card looks very ameturish...(if that's a word). Because you seem to be new at design, you could probably benefit by purchasing a book of business card designs, and study and learn from them. Your card gives nobody any reason to keep it now.
Well that's my $.02

ShawnAllan's picture

Better yet...

Get lots of books, and get out of the business until you understand design.
*sorry* but that's the cold truth. You have no business selling creative yet.

worthlord's picture

Good times

Not too shabby. Now, what you might want to consider, see the text? It's all the same! Why don't you spice it up a little. After all, you're a graphic designer, show your typography skills. I would suggest to make the email address in a different font. Something fun.
Then there's the border. It's rounded. Thats good! But try to fill it with a gradient. To represent your colour skills. I assume you do more web-stuff (solely based on the reflection) so I would go with red, green and blue. If you do more print choose CMYK.
Also, there's a lot of space underneath the picture. You could add some important business information like your bank account number etc. - try a pixelfont to fit it all in.
I actually like the picture, it shows that you're human.

mara06's picture

For the simplistic amongst us...

Dear God, say you're joking.

Mara

worthlord's picture

Needs more lens flare!

I think the simplistic approach is overrated.

Edit: Where are my manners; nice to meet you Mara. I won't tell you my real name yet, this way I'm much more mysterious and sexy.

natobasso's picture

No

You could add some important business information like your bank account number etc. - try a pixelfont to fit it all in.

Um, no. :)
----
Powerpoint is not a design application

melange's picture

aol

There is nothing i hate more, then seeing free emails on business cards. Considering i've seen the cost of domains with emails included at like $2, this should be a business expense that no designer can be without.

Most people have relayed the same feelings i have on this card besides the "Mob." It's very awkward and confusing.

life is great; without it, you'd be dead.

worthlord's picture

Now seriously

Come on guys you don't really think this is legit, do you?

Look at it! Every element is carefully chosen. You don't fool me!

P.S.: If you indeed fooled me Jozsef I'm very sorry.

Doug M.'s picture

:D

:D

jozefk's picture

You

Hey guys, you are wonderful! Wow!
I really didn't expect so many great and honest comments.
Will accept them, but maybe not all.

I'll change the typeface and create some logo instead of that "Graphic Designer" with a keyboard in the background. And also, will get a rid from red border, or maybe I'll just fill it with a gradient, as the worthlord suggest. Will try to make it simplier a bit. But I think I'll keep the photo.
OK. About cell and fax numbers I must to explain you. Last 15 months I'm in Dubai, UAE. That's why the cell country code is 971 :) Maybe I'll just remove the fax number completely?
Yeah, thanks for your advice about email address, melange. Probably, will accept that also :)

Why I chose black and red? The card stands out with that colors. That's the only reason.

mara06's picture

The photo makes you look

Putting a photo on your business card makes you look like a real estate agent or insurance salesman. And it looks tacky enough when they do it. You should not. It's really, really, REALLY bad idea.

Do NOT take Worthlord's suggestion about the gradient. I think he was joking. Or maybe you are! Are you?

Mob? There's a Mob? Will Frank Sinatra be singing? What does "MOB" mean? I've never seen that before.

Mara

mokenke's picture

Could be better

While I agree this design could be much better I want to emphasize on the fact that people who comment on it should sometime show their own skills. I feel that what gives you the right to talk about design is to actually do design. I would be interested in seeing post from these people, they certainly sound like they know what they talk about. Prove it.

mara06? worthlord? any work of yours we can all see?

Please don't think I am rude, I am just curious.

This really bothers me. It makes me think this site isn't worth shit.

melange's picture

I personally find maras

I personally find maras suggestions helpful whether or not her skills are there or not. She has a good eye and I rarely disagree with her. How would her comments make you think the site isn't worth shit? Bad designs constantly being uploaded makes me think the site isn't worth shit personally...

life is great; without it, you'd be dead.

pokie's picture

..... wow...

..... wow...

Leaky Penny's picture

Well said....

...if you wanted to come off as an ass that is. I am curious to see Maras stuff too, but not as a challenge or as though she has to prove herself to me. I want to see her work cause I'm a curious creature is all. No one has anything to prove to anybody here, much less you.

P.S> Learn some social skills dude, your "request" comes off as plain rude.

mara06's picture

My Web site is under

My Web site is under reconstruction at present, due to complete loss of the original during a transfer from one Web host to another. While I can't offer you a URL to my portfolio, I can upload a few of my things for your critique. Mind you, they've already been printed, so no changes can be made, but I value the perspective of other people.

Give me a little time to upload stuff (on the Critique) page.

Mara

mokenke's picture

Understanding

The comments are perfectly fine and for the most part useful. It is because of that that I am anxious to see the work. My view of professional is not looking professional but being professional. I think it is unfair, regardless of the value of the comments, that people take the risk of exhibiting their work and others just don't. It seems to easy. And really, no posts in a whole year? That's sounds strange to me. In a design class environment (for example) everybody shows their work for others to critique.

I still have my doubts about the impact of this site. I feel that 90% of the work here is amateur, and a good 50% is absolutely unacceptable by standards of basic design principles.

Please don't take this the wrong way. I want to be an active member here.

Thoughts?

natobasso's picture

Professional

So you think saying the word 'shit' on cb is professional? Interesting.

----
Powerpoint is not a design application

worthlord's picture

Fool me — you can't get fooled again

This single card incorporates almost every advertising 'art' cliché of the last 15 years. So, I still find it hard to believe it's for real.

That said, Jozsef is a great name. I could think of something.
Let's make a 'Jozsef' business card contest. 2 entries/person max.

Who's in?

ShawnAllan's picture

Monkenke... Amen brother.

Monkenke... Amen brother.

As far as 'shit' goes... I've dropped harsher language than that in client meetings, let alone sessions with other creatives.

mokenke's picture

Ok, crap instead

Sorry if I said shit. Maybe crap would be more appropriate. In any case, let's stick to the point here.

mara06's picture

Feeling critical?

I've just uploaded four things for you to take your hostility out on. Go for it! Me? I'm goin' to lunch!

:-)

Mara

gwells's picture

judge the criticism on it's validity

i'm happy to share my thoughts with people who are looking for constructive criticism. you're welcome to accept them or not. if people really feel that the only way to validate constructive criticism is for the critic to post their own work as well, then you'll get a lot less constructive criticism.

if you're interested in seeing someone in particular's work, feel free to ask them. but personally i don't feel the need to "validate" my criticism by posting my work just to prove i have a clue. i hope my comments stand on their own as legitimate critiques. as i said, you're welcome to accept or ignore my criticism as you will.

mokenke's picture

Walk the talk

Sure, comments can be valid and useful. All I am saying is that it looks bad when you actively judge others but your own work hasn't been exposed at all. Is there a reason why some people participate in almost every critique that comes out but have NEVER shown their work? I would just feel really bad for myself if I judge somebody else's efforts for a long time behind a comfortable curtain.

In the design world, your work is what speaks for you.

I don't consider my comments as hostile. You are just not used to somebody speaking directly, without ornaments, straight to the point.

gwells's picture

*shrug*

it's not that i'm not used to people speaking directly. it's that your comment came across as "calling people out," as if it's not really right to critique others without putting up your own work. i think it's generous to take the time to share your thoughts on what some people have posted looking for some critiques (as long as you're offering constructive criticism and not just here to be a jerk).

i don't think it "looks bad" to offer advice to someone who solicits it without soliciting their advice in return. if you were to ask an art director for an information interview to critique your portfolio, would it be bad form on their part to not ask you to critique their work as well? this isn't quite the same as being in a design class, where everyone is working on the same projects and you're learning about different ways to approach a solution.

and even if someone posts nice work, that doesn't necessarily validate their critique on something else. nor does less than spectacular work invalidate someone else's comment.

now, there are definitely some bad critiques out there. but you can judge that on the critique itself without seeing their work. i think the words "actively judge others" is the wrong way to phrase it and the wrong approach to take. constructive criticism is how people learn. being "judgmental" is how you turn people off, both from your comments and from design in general. i hope i don't come across that way.

worthlord's picture

Lighten up

Post 'work' here? No way. Why?
I would however participate in a contest,
this way I wouldn't embarrass my clients.

Also, it's fun!

See where I'm floating here? A contest category would
allow pros to contribute in a dignified manner.
Of course we could use the critique category.
It's even more fun if there are participants,
so we probably would need a really long timeframe.
Like, best entry of the month, with a loose topic.

I like to think that would enhance the critique-thumbnail-overview a lot.

Think about it. Until then we need to spend our resources on the current topic.
Please don't forget about Jozsef, he needs us more than ever, the cards are due, so no time to read a book. Joszef, I don't have the time to talk you through it but I can make you an illustrator file with some suggestions. Would you consider that inappropriate? But wait a sec, is it proven yet Jozsef's card isn't a parody?

archmedia's picture

no-spec

www.no-spec.com

that's all i ever have to say about design contests and competitions. I will NEVER waste my time with them. (i know i know, never say never, but that's BS)

Contests only degrade the field we work in. Seriously read the content of the site i posted, and hopefully you'll see how much spec work and contests hurt designers in the long run...
____________________________________________
Architectural Technician - Multimedia Designer
www.ArchMedia.us

gwells's picture

there are "contests" and there are "competitions"

if you're submitting work already done for an award competition, that's not an issue with spec work. and i think that's what he was talking about, not something that is akin to spec work. if i'm wrong, hopefully he'll correct me.

archmedia's picture

he's suggesting we start a

he's suggesting we start a "contest category" where "pros to contribute in a dignified manner"

it's not very dignified of me if i'm undermining my own industry. Submitting something after a contest for a critique to see where you went wrong is one thing. But to be honest, it never should have been submitted in the first place, cause contests/competitions (two words for the same friggin thing in this industry) undermine us either way. Spec work DOES indeed include contests/competitions.

It truly saddens me to see people partaking in this kind of work. again, the site no-spec does indeed cover the topic of contests and how it hurts us all as a whole in the design industry.
http://www.no-spec.com/articles/design-contests/

____________________________________________
Architectural Technician - Multimedia Designer
www.ArchMedia.us

gwells's picture

so you think AIGA promotes specwork?

because AIGA has multiple "competitions" where people submit their completed work for juried competitions, both on a national and local level. they must be hypocritical, considering they are one of the leading anti-spec organizations out there.

http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm/position-spec-work

AIGA's definition of design contests:

Similarly, organizations sometimes initiate contests as a way of developing logos or other identity work. Unlike disciplines in which the designer can bill for implementation of the proposed design (e.g., architecture), in communication design, the submitted solution already represents the bulk of the intellectual work. AIGA encourages organizations to issue a request for proposals from qualified designers. This sample letter may also be sent by AIGA members to help educate organizations offering contests.

This sounds nothing at all like what he was proposing. at least not to me.

On the contrary, AIGA promotes numerous competitions.

http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm/competitions

These are not considered spec work, as you are submitting copies of work already done, not submitting products while "hoping" to be given some sort of payment (or the dreaded "exposure") if you win the contest and the "client" uses your concepts.

There is no way this can "undermine your own industry." You're not taking paying work from potential designers, since there is no "work" involved if you're posting examples of prior work without granting any usage or copyright.

perhaps he used a poor choice of words, but the two words (contest/competition) are not necessarily the same friggin thing in this industry. you have to take them in context and not presume either of them means spec work without looking at the context.

Leaky Penny's picture

Competition you say?

Normally I'm the first to rip someones head off for a) accepting to do spec work or b) offering spec work...but if the final project is just for fun, no money involved and doesn't really serve any purpose other than showcasing ( read showing off) our skills, why not? Sign me up for an illustration contest! :P

worthlord's picture

Learn stuff, it's awesome!

I didn't think about it too much. That's probably a good thing. Now, I can't say I'm pro specwork but seriously I do this stuff all day long, it wouldn't matter to me to post a little on a website. Have fun. I even would consider to help someone (imagine!) if it feels right and it's a colleague, why not. I wouldn't want to 'undermine my own industry' I would like to strengthen it. Together we can do it, let's join in a circle an light this leviathan.

Anyway, I'm not talking about 'Who makes the best logo for Company Inc.', go!

More something like to announce a topic at the beginning of the month, e.g. 'Best Businesscards with Antiqua-Type'. Pros can post their own favourite work or create something fun without pressure, whatever and beginners can try to come up with something appealing, experiment, without thinking about a client and her tagline.

The thing is, you've to motivate people to post outstanding content. And they won't in the 'critique' category (as you can see). For obvious reasons. Contest/competition/match/tournament/whatever mainly a different title matters. It does determinate the motivation to post and therefore the quality of the contributions and that's what it was all about in the beginning of this thread. Well, in the middle.

AGAIN: No corporate stuff, our own content, I guess it would be pretty obvious if somebody tries to abuse such a 'contest'.

I figure this would be hard to carry out in the current categories, we could try in the 'critique' section, just to show our interest. If there's any.

In conclusion: FREE JOZSEF!

Leaky Penny's picture

Even another idea...

Would be to have the contest, and say three people decide "Hey, I wanna try for that illustration contest...err...competition!!!" Then we can actually have a kind of slideshow ( I'm on no sleep but this makes sense to me, bear with me) that shows the artists thought process. Like, for example the subject is "Ice Cream", each artist can go about their thought processes and conceptual phase to show others how they got to the final concept. Basically to show others the entire creative process, cause that seems to be the problem with a lot of people...sum'n like that.

P.S. Josezf's current thread is DEAD. He has another one up though.

worthlord's picture

Artfiend!

- This months illustration challenge -

'Best artwork with a rooster in it'

I like the process-capturing idea, but fear in practice this will take up too much time and so nobody will do it.
We should try to keep it as simple as possible to encourage participation.

Also I don't think anybody will code something soon, so we need to get started, else we forget again - and the best place is the critique category.

Now we're already two, enough for the first battle. :P

Leaky Penny's picture

Illustration?

I'm in man. I'm SO in. Give me two weeks when I get back from Christmas Vacation we can start off the New Year with this. We can do one illustration a month, whenever things are slow work wise that is. My portfolio needs updating anyways :)

The process capturing idea is something that needs to be done regardless...unless you just want to put a rooster on a background and call it a day. You *are* gonna have to start out with rough sketches, those can be posted, then the final comp...colour comp then final.
I think this is essential cause the problem with a lot of designs here is that they aren't thought out. Things are thrown on pages with no rhyme or reason.

CONCEPT should be the main focus here. Hell, we even have our lovely celebrity judges Ivan, Archmedia, Mara and Plugz to help out! :P

worthlord's picture

My Wacom is bigger than yours!

Hm, an ongoing match would be a great reason to get my illustration masterplan goin'. I already postponed too long. A plain rooster is alright with me btw. Anyways, good thinking; as a result we'll have all sorts of wicked things in our portfolios that will attract clients who want that kind of stuff and so our days will be filled with even more joy and enormous amounts of money. I so feel it.

Also, this column gets crazy small, we need to find a solution soon!

Leaky Penny's picture

Haha, your Wacom is probably bigger than mine...

but it's what you do with it that keeps them coming back for more! :P I think in the new year we definately have to hook something up. I can alredy see my rooster....in a plate...with a side of coleslaw and fries...:P And yes, this would bring much joy and hapiness to us, but most importantly, the kids!

mokenke's picture

What this site is for.

By definition (on the help page), this site is described as "a professional blog and community site for graphic designers working on Mac OS X. It's objective is to provide graphic designers a professional forum where they can share tips and tricks, follow up on the industry's events and ask for help and critique from fellow members."

I assume that other active members of the site are graphic designers, as described by its creator. The least I would expect, is to see my fellow designers' work, something, anything. Just a nice balance of giving and taking so everybody benefits from this resource at somewhat the same level of involvement.

So this is for designers, not for rugby players or tiger trainers, unless they do design too, and if they do, I'd just like to see it.

The other issue after that, is sorting out the graphic designers from the Photoshop owners who learned how to use it a little bit one cold afternoon.

I think this is a forum topic. Jozsef, sorry for initiating a discussion far off the topic of your card.

Leaky Penny's picture

Really dude...

You got to loosen up. Some of us can't post most of the work we do up cause it basically belongs to the client, or we just don't have time. No one should be *forced* to post. I understand where you're coming from but you can't walk around and demand people put work up, much less whine about it.

caoimghgin's picture

I'd like to offer constructive critisism....

But I have no idea where to start. I can only hope you are having a bit of fun at our expense.

gwells's picture

the definition

the definition you posted from the help page and your expectations, at the least, aren't necessarily the same. there are a whole lot of things listed in the definition, posting work is only a small part of it. and while there is a critique section, there's not a "portfolio" section where people post work just so you can see what they do.

maybe it's not a bad idea to have something like that, necessarily. but your last comment seems to be the thrust of what you're saying, at least to me. it seems as if your goal is "sorting out the graphic designers from the Photoshop owners who learned how to use it a little bit one cold afternoon." are you looking for people to prove themselves by posting their work before giving advice on the critique section?

and agreed, sorry for hijacking your critique.

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