critique section annoyances
archmedia (584 points) | Wed, 2007-09-26 23:26I'm sorry to be bringing this up again...
I know it was covered not long ago in another forum posting, but i don't feel anythings been done about the problem, at least not that i've seen or that we've been told of. (If something is being done as a work in progress/solution in progress, then i apologize, but none the less, here's how i feel)
The spam: I think it's time to require people to be member for at least 24-48 hours before they can post a critique. If they manage to wait out this time frame and come back later to post a spam image, then it just shows their dedication and I guess it deserves to be online for the few hours that spam tends to last on here. With that, it gives us the right to make all the jokes we tend to make anyways. Another problem is limiting the number of postings a member can make in one day, I think 2 seems like a fair number. Limiting to one a day would be overly constrictive, but more then 2 and people get tired of just one persons designs/style.
The Postings: again, i think it's time to require people to post a description, at least 20-25 words. I know I personally can't stand looking at something and trying to decipher the purpose of it, and I also know that I'm not the only one that feels this way.
The disciplines: it's time to start having categories to the critique section. Some starters: logo/identity, print (postcards, posters, books, etc.), web layout, business cards, and heck, just for Nanda maybe we have a public awarness section and lastly, possibly a miscellaneous section of sorts. Again, I know first hand that some stuff interests me far more then others, being able to filter them would be a blessing.
As mentioned in other posting, a voting system would create animosity, chaos, and useless banter, so lets avoid that. Pissing contests aren't fun!
And lastly, it might just be time to look for a second or third person to help moderate things. Like I mentioned in previous posts, one person can't be expected to make things work on here, their job, their family, their house and still find time to sleep. Just a thought!
Actually, this hole post is a bunch of thoughts. Like I said, and not to sound repetitive, but I'm starting to see more and more frustration in myself with the critique section and I'm definitely seeing it in others on this site. Lets hope this helps in any way shape or form.
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Architectural Technician - Multimedia Designer
www.ArchMedia.us
____________________________________________
Architectural Technician - Multimedia Designer
www.ArchMedia.us
The critiques section is becoming a joke. I agree with the ideas you bring to the table. 24 - 48 hours does give them time to think about the post, maybe do some last minute tweaks, maybe write a description, but it is essential. Although I enjoy the jokes myself, the credibility of the site is in jeopardy when you go through 3 or 4 great concepts and pieces just to be facing some little twats picture with her ugly-ass baby. It *is* frustrating.
Limiting posts though? If the person can in fact post multiple posts BUT be able to provide an intelligent, coherent description for each and every piece, I say let them post. Of course, common sense dictates one doesn't post up 10 pieces with cut and paste pre-written descriptions about how they felt when they did this piece and how their girlfriend inspired them to do that piece. Also, 20-25 words though, not enough. Raise that number quite a bit and now we're talking.
The sections for critiquing is a GREAT idea. Personally I would find myself gravitating around the Illustration section. Bu tone thing you don't want this site to become is another Deviantart, which is good and all, but this site has so much more potential that just a mere artists showcase. Maybe though we can have a separate site for Nanda altogether though...
Voting IS useless. What are we here for, prizes or creative criticism?
I'd love for this site to become something unique and one-of-a-kind, and its pretty fucking damn near getting there.
definitly don't want to become deviantart, that place is a PRIME example of becoming a dumping ground for peoples pictures. there's far more junk on there now then actual design/art.
I think this site is already unique and one-of-a-kind, i don't know of any other site that has a critique section built like this one. Obviously, by my post above, and by other peoples frustrations, it just needs some up-to-date tweaks. Obvious as well, is that Ivan reads what we say and works on it... see below :D
thanks Ivan!
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Architectural Technician - Multimedia Designer
www.ArchMedia.us
im sorry but what you say about DA is baloney and i really dont think you have combed Deviant Art well enough. I am a member there since 2001. what i despise there is the Mr & Ms Deviant Art popularity contest, those unecessary praises. But indeed,whether we like it or not there are so much (Mostly than not) intelligent artists there. If you got the same definition of intellect as mine though.
A good read: DESIGN vs. ART
I believe the path to the appreciation of Art and the path to the appreciation of Design is very simple.
Art’s path is Physical -> Logical -> Contextual -> Conceptual
Design’s (Good Design’s) path is Conceptual -> Contextual -> Logical -> Physical
A design is made to perform a certain function, not to act as art, which has a different purpose. Art, as a medium, stands to communicate. This communication can be emotional, physical, or other wise.
[Artists]
• Artists are social critics & lateral thinkers that identify and fill in gaps in tool kit.
• Do it for selfish reasons: want to make something but the technology is not there.
[Designers]
• Designers sniff the zeitgeist. They have a "trained" gut feel.
• Designers also push technologies but they are more process based: understand the user, understand materials
• Designers are eager for stuff to work (generalization). They really care if things works (unlike artists).
reference: LukeW
" Minds are like water, once it gets stagnant -- it begins to stink"
"The ongoing WOW is happening right NOW"
Good suggestions. I will work on them asap!
is there, or can there be, a way to send messages to one another on here so that some of the comments, jokes, personal info, etc.etc. isn't in the critiques or topic based forum questions?
then again, we could just add one another on messenger or any app of choice heh. still a thought that might help cut out some of the crap.
____________________________________________
Architectural Technician - Multimedia Designer
www.ArchMedia.us
So what are you trying to say, eh? That talking about rugby in a post isn't appropriate?! He he. :)
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Powerpoint is not a design application
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The Salon Design Tech
Maybe we do it craigslist style and have three votes to remove a critique post?
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Powerpoint is not a design application
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The Salon Design Tech
though i'm still hesitant on a vote system.
for example, that WAW Ad critique (the one still showing with the huge bird) looks like spam to some, yet looks authentic to me cause it shows the crop marks and what when you click on the "original" it's a different image, but it's a nice large resolution image.
so something like that could get voted off even if it's authentic. is that just a risk we take? or do we avoid try avoiding that with other measures first?
____________________________________________
Architectural Technician - Multimedia Designer
www.ArchMedia.us
I say the voting sends it to Ivan and he has veto power. He'd be alerted to the potential post removal and then would enact it himself. Then 'mob rules' doesn't come into play. :)
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Powerpoint is not a design application
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The Salon Design Tech
Did I just fall for something bogus when I responded to the 9th grader a few minutes ago?
Mara the Penitent
ps: Oh, maybe you meant the toucan in the ad spam thing? Whew. I'm off the hook.
Mara
What do you mean by that?, I don't spam if thats what you are thinking. Also, I'm sorry for the 5 posts I just recently made in the Critique Section, I hope it doesn't make anyone mad. I don't have any more documents to add at the moment, so you won't have to worry for a while. :D
My vision of a scoring system would use a scale from 1-10 on a few criteria. (concept, color, typography, layout)
The submitter would score their own design prior to submission which is initially hidden from anyone viewing the critique. After reviewing the description a visitor could score the design as well as add a typed critique. (Scoring a design would give them a view of the poll results)
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Designers Score: Concept-(7), Color-(8), Typography-(7), Layout-(8)
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AVERAGE Critique: Concept-(4.33), Color-(7.66), Typography-(4.00), Layout-(7.66)
Marco: Concept-(6), Color-(8), Typography-(3), Layout-(7)
Acrhfire: Concept-(3), Color-(7), Typography-(6), Layout-(8)
Dirtball: Concept-(4), Color-(8), Typography-(3), Layout-(8)
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This in my opinion would give the designer a little better perspective as to where others feel the design stands and could pinpoint an area for improvement.
Not everyone feels comfortable or has the time to type out an official critique on every post. This would allow them to provide valuable information that could benefit the designer and WOULD NOT be a silly 'contest' on who submitted the best work.
Another possibility is having some sort of a point system: a new user has to reach certain point level in order to be allowed to post; you earn points first by simply logging in, then at a certain point level, you can reply and each reply adds to the point again, then you can post forum topics and each topic adds to the point too, and then when your points are high enough, you can finally post in the critique session - kind of approach. I hope I'm making sense here.
A few online groups that I'm a member of use this system and it works for the most part.
In order for everyone to not think something is spam, one has to type in the creative brief, a list of what they had to eat that morning and a personal note to everyone thanking them for their potential comments???
Cmon guys, get over yourselves. If it isn't spam or self promotion, it should go in. If you can't critique an ad without seeing a creative brief or a long winded description, then you shouldn't be critiquing anything to start with. Sure, it would be nice to know what's behind the ad, but it isn't necessary.
The only thing CB needs is another moderator or two. That's all.
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Visit Creative Guy for graphics and Mac OS tips, tricks, tutorials and commentary
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Visit The Graphic Mac for graphics and Mac OS tips, reviews, tutorials and discussion.
Ivan's OTHER site (lol) that my CD tried submitting one of 'Best' ads to Adsoftheworld.com and he told me that they rejected it. He was crushed because he felt that it was worthy of being shown to the world. . . LOL mind you even though the ad is great, its NOT that great! maybe he didn't explain it properly?
"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda
Maybe it is great. It's just didn't work for me. Sorry about it!
. . . you guys have a committee of people that decide what goes up on adsoftheworld.com. . . what I am trying to say is, if it applies to adsoftheworld, then should it not apply here?
BTW I will post that ad on here and see what people think. :)
"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda
Ads of the World is for ad agencies to show off completed ads that have actually been produced. CB's critique section is for work that hasn't yet been produced, or for work that has been produced but the artist is still seeking comments.
Think of AOTW as a site for high-end work, and CB for mid-range to low-end work.
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Visit Creative Guy for graphics and Mac OS tips, tricks, tutorials and commentary
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Visit The Graphic Mac for graphics and Mac OS tips, reviews, tutorials and discussion.
Hi everyone. I just wanted you guys to know that just because people are new around here, doesnt mean that they dont read or actually critique. I go on here all the time. maybe hours a day or so when Im online. I love reading your critiques because it makes me understand what I should be doing when im designing. I would love to reply in some critiques but maybe when im ready I will but for now I love reading what you guys have to say. thanx
To Dye 4
Simply have a button in each document's critique page that reports it as spam and the moderators can then decide what to do with the "spam" and if it is even spam in the first place. I hope people don't abuse this button though...that might be a problem, i'm sure it can be solved though. :D