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Alex's picture
397 pencils

CS6 & creative cloud

What are your plans RE: CS6 and the creative cloud?
Will you upgrade (yourself or your studio)?
If so, what are your compelling reasons to do so?

I'm using CS4 and, at the moment, I can't yet see a compelling reason to upgrade (aside from the time-limited upgrade pricing). Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign are my work horses and, although I gripe about their limitations, bugs and bloat, they do what I need them to do.

Commenting on this Forum topic will be automatically closed on June 19, 2012.

Ivan's picture

I think I will switch to CC, I have no real choice, I have to be able to open new file formats.

mara06's picture
2752 pencils

I don't think the pricing plan is really a good deal. I mean, in a year, you'll have spent $600 on something you could have saved up for and bought for less than half that! No thanks. So far, CS5 hasn't blown me away. I'll wait on upgrading to CS6 until I absolutely have to.

Mara

wgzn's picture
2124 pencils

im with mara. adobe is updating too often. and i wonder if it was a planed approach to get us all used to subscription pricing...

for me, there are very few (if any) CRUCIAL features in illustrator CS__ that it didnt have at about version 10 or so.

ive typically only upgraded when i started getting more incompatible new files from clients and colleagues than i could conveniently deal with.

Art D. Rector's picture
3165 pencils

Same here - but you folks have heard my Adobe rant too many times already. The first email I rec'd from Adobe upon installing CS5 was "UPGRADE TO CS5.5 FOR ONLY 349!!!" And CS5 had only been out about 4 months. CS5 is nice - there are some things I really like and some things that make the job easier, but I still get just as much use (and money) out of my G4 running PS7 and Illustrator 10.

Alex's picture
397 pencils

@Ivan - I get the "This file was created with a newer version..." warning once or twice a day - I've yet to find any real problems caused by it. I am dealing with relatively simple (in terms of functionality if not layers and scope) files though. What compatibility issues have you run across? - I ask because, as the latest version of CS moves further and further away from my version I suspect issues will become more noticeable.

@mara, @Art - I think you've hit the nail on the head. Subscription just doesn't work for me because I like the flexibility of deciding when I invest a sizeable chunk of my earnings in an upgrade. And I like to be able to plan that investment in advance and make a clear decision about why I'm upgrading. With subscription, not only do you not have that option, but, if you decide to stop paying then you don't even have the software.

Ivan's picture

No problems so far. Maybe I was just lucky.

YoungZM's picture
917 pencils

I expect the subscription plan to be dead in 5 years if Adobe doesn't try and release CS38 by May 2014. I mean, really- surely they can see how futile this will be to any company looking to still make money?

Alex's picture
397 pencils

That's one thing I've been wondering about - how do large releases fit with a subscription model?

Given the energy that Adobe is putting it to it, I suspect it'll be the other way around. There won't be a CS8, rather there will be a steady flow of updates to creative suite products. How frequent, or large those updates will be will be interesting to watch.

One positive outcome of this could be that if everyone is on the subscription plan then there is less incentive to launch big, showy features and more to create solid, über stable products.

YoungZM's picture
917 pencils

That's my point though, Adobe CS5 and models lower really do all we really require as designers, how is Adobe going to sell us on anything further? As mentioned above, designers already are holding onto legacy copies because they fulfill their requirements, what is Adobe going to do? Nazi-fy the formats and make them incompatible with future services? That's a good way to go out of business. So long as the community sticks together on this they will have very few features. That was the positive to boxed editions, you saved money in the long run by selectively purchasing what your business needed which was a one time fee for a 5 year period approximately before you needed to upgrade- this is a yearly same cost fee for really the same service. Might I also mention offline working? If this is going to be a server login to "access my account" to work with an Adobe product, how the hell am I going to work when networks are down or on the train when I need to hit that final rush? I think further explanation is really required for subscription pricing. Even if it's going to be an anti-virus type "x" day rental cost, same result.

Quite frankly as good as Adobe's products are, I'm tired of them trying to scalp me. They don't need to charge me $600 for a new Photoshop, it's a few feature upgrades built on core work made over the years. A company never needs to make its R&D costs back in a months time, I deem this is obscene. Quark is going to hit it big if they muck this one up- there's lots of room for improvement on Quark's end so if they can make a like-minded layout program that was attracting us all to ID, they'll have the market easily with boxed copies. Business comes down to cost effective productivity- that's not what Adobe is now trying to push.

Art D. Rector's picture
3165 pencils

That's exactly why I still use Quark - because they respect the user. No Adobe rants here - you've heard if before. But if the Adobe spies are peeking in on this thread, I'll just say if they ever go subscription-only, I'll find a way to live without them altogether.

YoungZM's picture
917 pencils

As far as functionality goes, Quark has a lot of quirks but still works (that rhymes, neat?) anyways. ID just builds on user efficiency and is more comfortable for me to use, it's just more comfortable. There are benefits typographically speaking to Quark however- I like the smaller and more immediate changes in their integers while using typography (ie. kerning/ tracking) and some other controls like baseline grids seemed more comfortable (haven't used Quark in a year and a half, sadface).

mara06's picture
2752 pencils

I still use Quark, too. I upgraded a few months ago to 9.2 and although it does indeed have some quirks, I still find it far more intuitive. And for copyfitting, it's still the best, just as you say. I just don't feel a serious need to use InDesign. I do, once in a while, though, just to keep my hand in in case I have to use it for something one day.

Mara

fidel's picture
337 pencils

I think Creative Cloud has some advantages for the user, depending on the kind of work he/she does.

More and more a designer is working for different carriers and you need a particular tool for a job. With the $ 600 dollars a year you can have all the tools you need. That means the Master Suite plus all the tablet tools and some exclusive options that will only be available for the Creative Cloud users.

There will be new features added like The Digital Publishing Suite for tablet apps, and so on. Creative Cloud users will have all those features, and they don't have to wait fot the next version of the Suite. And everything for the same subscription fee.

By the way: The Cloud idea doesn't mean that your software is in the cloud. Everything is installed on your local computer. The cloud idea refers to the exchange of documents that are on one device (local computer) and another device like your laptop or tablet.

A minus for larger users is the way that the subscription works. If you have 20 people in your office that use the Creative Cloud you don't get a discount for that. If you upgrade the classic way you would get a discount for bulk licenses.

Another advantage for users is that they can sign up for a limited time. For example if you have a job that will take 2 months you buy a licence for that time. That way you know exactly how much the software cost will be for that particular job.

Just some ideas on the Creative Cloud. I will probably use the subscription model.

YoungZM's picture
917 pencils

I'm not sure what you mean by having the tools you need, if anything this will be most beneficial to printers (to which they really already have a "sweeter deal" with the previous box-copy model). I have all the tools I need and I can guarantee you I'd be client-less if I tried to pass $600 in costs onto anyone.

fidel's picture
337 pencils

You don't have to charge the whole creative cloud to every client.

YoungZM's picture
917 pencils

I shouldn't have to charge any client for a yearly software I choose to keep because I want access to everything. If I chose to I could do my work in the original CS and clients not know the difference. They'll go onto someone not passing on the costs of what I'm now deeming, useless fees.

wgzn's picture
2124 pencils

if you were really running your business wisely, you'd build software updates (as well as several other operating costs) into your hourly rate. and thats transparent to your clients.

YoungZM's picture
917 pencils

I think you're missing my point- I know business wise you pass these costs onto clients, but why jack up your rates higher to pay for something you don't actually need? A model like this doesn't seem to suit the needs of a private business owner unless s/he's a printer.

Art D. Rector's picture
3165 pencils

Nevermind

Art D. Rector's picture
3165 pencils

The only place I can see the subscription model working is MAYBE at a production facility with an enormous workload that would justify the price AND the continual upgrades (because you always need at least one machine up to date on the upgrades when you're doing production). A single user? Nonsense. Anyone should be able to get 5 years out of a CS package - even at $1500, that's $300 a year as opposed to $600 for the subscription. Adobe is - once again - drunk on dreams of big cash flow. Imho, they'd make more money if they went back to serving their users instead of their stockholders.

mara06's picture
2752 pencils

I am totally in love with you now.

Mara

Art D. Rector's picture
3165 pencils

Because I'm a cheapskate? :)

wgzn's picture
2124 pencils

im looking at the cloud subscription thing today, and the way it works out, (after the first year promo rate) its about $100 more per year than my current upgrade practice - which is to update the master collection (im print, web and video) about every 2 years, or when i start getting too many incompatible files from colleagues and clients.

with the subscription, i will no longer have to be concerned with having the current version - BUT i'll have to be sure im near an internet connection every time the monthly renewal happens... that could possibly be a drag.

Art D. Rector's picture
3165 pencils

You should seriously look into other purchase options. Buying retail from Adobe should be the last option on your list. Don't believe I've ever paid full price for anything except my original Quark package.

wgzn's picture
2124 pencils

can you elaborate on those "options"?

Art D. Rector's picture
3165 pencils

Last time I bought - I just asked around and people started coming out of the woodwork with stuff - brand new in the box. Perfectly legal.

You can also try this source...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=adobe+cs6+master+collection&_sacat=0

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=adobe+cs6+designer+suite&_sacat=0&_odkw=adobe+cs6+master+collection&_osacat=0

wgzn's picture
2124 pencils

i bought one like that once a few years ago, and have contacted a few more over the years, and nearly all of them ended up being something someone won in a drawing at a trade show and were not upgradable or to some degree not as "full retail" as they were advertised. just didnt end up being worth the extra effort in my experience. plus, i just like being as "on the level" as possible in the event something goes really wrong.

but at the end of the day, this is my living. the adobe tools make me easily 100x or more per year than they cost me. so i really dont mind supporting the process.

Alex's picture
397 pencils

Easiest way I've found of saving money on CS is upgrading to "Print Standard" over "Print & Web Premium". I use ID, PS and Illustrator, and that's it. Also, buying via Amazon (other retailers are available) also shaves off some cash.

Still can't see the financial point of creative cloud. However, as Adobe are releasing new features to it which will only be available to CS users with CS7 it may become more compelling.

Art D. Rector's picture
3165 pencils

Think I already told this story on the board, but when I went to buy last time - I went straight to Adobe. I was perfectly willing to pay the $1599 for a full-on Designer's Suite, but I couldn't get a salesman on the phone and I gave up after 45 minutes. Then I started asking around - ended up paying $400 for a full-on DS CS5. It's perfectly legal, registered in my name, Adobe has been sending me upgrade offers on CS6 at the reduced price and everything. No difference between buying the one I bought and buying it directly from Adobe (except I saved a ton of money and didn't have to deal with Adobe). I was also offered a standard Photoshop package (which - surprisingly - also eventually sold for $400 as well) And a Masters Collection which I could have probably got for $800 - which eventually sold for $1200. These are brand new products in the box - not student versions or LE or anything "special" about them. The way I look at it is Adobe has screwed me out of some of my skills by changing things around - so I will happily screw them out of some software money if possible.

wgzn's picture
2124 pencils

im sure thats the case. but what about all those deals that look legit but end up being gray-market or even well-done bootlegs (or God knows WHAT)?

i'm not saying its a pure case of "you got lucky" but from my experiences in the same vein, thats the way i see it.

my initial question was, why did you try to talk with a salesperson? why not just buy it on their site? - but there are several good answers for that. and ive done that myself. i guess my experiences with their salesfolk were just always at least acceptable...

another thing about my experiences buying the suites is that doing video, i need aftereffects, premiere, encore, etc... and that means master collection. and (at least last time i tried to find a 3rd party vendor) those options were far less plentiful then the other collections.

i guess as in many situations, everyone has their own set of expectations and experiences...

Art D. Rector's picture
3165 pencils

I agree there are definitely some shady deals out there - or legit deals I wouldn't bother with (such as student/teacher packages).

There was no "luck" involved in my purchase. I had my choice of any CS package.

I could have bought directly off the website, but that guarantees I would paid full price. By talking to a salesperson I was hoping to wrangle some kind deal. Even though I didn't own an upgradable package - I did own PSD, ILL, Acrobat and other Adobe software. My intention was to try to get the DSCS package at the upgrade price (which - btw - was close to $200 more than I eventually paid). That idea went out the window when they kept disconnecting me. However - IF a salesperson got on the line, and I couldn't get a deal from him - I would have paid the full price.

Your right about "expectations". If you expect to pay full price - you probably will. But one thing I think you should keep in mind is the software guys are pretty much like crack dealers. They'll forego full price a lot of times because it still puts you on the upgrade treadmill. THAT'S the important thing to them - to keep you coming back for more. So the bottom line is the "price" is not really the "price" until you pay it.

Creativebits is a blog about Creativity, Graphic Design, Adobe, Apple and other related subjects.

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