How do you handle a client who wants to copy another company's logo?

You are covered by the 70% rule of copyright which says if you 'copy' a work and modify it at least 70% then you are actually creating a new work.

That being said, these clients have to ask themselves--do I want to blend in or stand out from the marketplace? Am I just playing it safe by trying to copy a competitor's logo? Ask them questions as a saleswoman would; not as a designer would. Go for Yes answers and you'll guide them to the 'right' conclusion.

As for support for your dilemma, AIGA has a great page here that explains design as a strategic business tool, and might help them make the 'right' choice when it comes to their logo.

I found this article via google (search term: should I copy that company's logo) that further explains the need for good design in this situation.

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natobasso

Thank you, natobasso. Those two articles were VERY informative, to say the least. I bookmarked both of them for future reference, as it seems I may need it as a suggestion for my client(s). :)

Suzanne Maestri-Walters :: Graphic Designer

...chances are they won't say they like it so much because it looks a lot like some other one.

And if they want an exact replica? You are within your rights (and morally obligated to) tell them exactly what printers tell people who bring in copyrighted publications to copy. "Sorry. No can do."

Do you have a statement of principles for yourself? If so, you might want to cover this kind of situation in it. (I have mine on the flip side of my proposals/work orders, along with all the other fine print. When my client has signed the document, it means they've accepted my terms.) If your terms include refusing to copy someone else's work, you can just refer them to that item, then offer to create an original their competitors will envy -- and that you can promise you will not tweak for them :-)

Thank you so much. Those links were very helpful and I have already sent one of those links to my client (who basically wants me to copy another company's logo).

Thanks!

Suzanne Maestri-Walters :: Graphic Designer

I had a customer ask me to do this maybe 6 months ago. Basically, it was a total from scratch design job. The lady at my work who set it up apparently knows NOTHING of the law-- oh wait, no one in my department knew the law but me. Apparently I was the only one who got anything from the art law class I took?

Anyways, he said he wanted it to be just like it (the lady who wrote it up told him we might have to change one design element-- this one illustration on there). I talked to him about the stuff he wanted to be different (mostly text) and everything. I told him I cannot copy this design-- it's copyright infringement. He then went on to tell me that he knows the owner of this company, the owner is the one who gave him a copy of this and told him that he HAD to do this for his business because it really helped with his profits.

The catcher is that his buddy was also a customer of ours. So, we're screwed because the lady that set the job up even put a copy of said job in the job jacket.

SO... I ended up doing my own thing on it. I mean, this is a pretty common thing to make. He called me and told me to make the text more like the other (I think it was blue with a red outline).. blah blah.

That's when I went to my art team leader and she didn't know what to tell me. We then went to our [then] manager of the department. He didn't know what to tell me [he also doesn't have an art degree-- I now have a boss that does, thank goodness]. We ended up talking with another guy at my work who sets up jobs and does so for the first customer [the one we're supposed to copy].

Turns out, first person was actually a customer of another customer. SOOOOOOOOO... they just had that guy who wants to copy become a customer of that customer's vendor (the one who owns the rights to the artwork).

SO, I redesigned it to his liking... some elements were the same, a lot were not-- but under the law, yes, it was copyright infringement because I was using the other one as a guide. However, since he became a customer of that other customer's vender-- there will not be a problem.

.... if that made sense....

It seems that unfortunately sometimes in our field, we have to continually deal with this crap. It's really starting to get to me. I have had 3 clients in the past year who have requested almost identical logo designs copied from another company's logo. It's hard because since I am on my own and doing freelance, and not working for another company—like it appears that you are, pokie—I am on my own when it comes to telling these clients that this isn't right and it's against the law. They don't seem to care. I even sent a link of one of those articles above to this particular client and he didn't even respond to it. What does that mean, exactly? Is he just ignoring my advice?? Not sure, this guy is a total moron anyway (I have never met him in person, just via e-mail), so it's been a challenge, to say the least, dealing with this guy.

Thank you so much, pokie, for sharing all of that. It's good to know that I am not the only designer out there that's dealing with this. I mean, why hire a professional designer or design firm to reproduce an exact replica of somebody else's logo? I never understood that. I know one thing for certain, even Kinko's has morals—they are very strict on what they will reproduce, and perhaps that's why they come to us, maybe we're the schmucks. LOL Just kidding.

Now this guy wants half his money back, even though I have spent countless hours working on his logo. But I guess that's another issue, isn't it? I mean, do clients actually go to their architects or lawyers and ask for their retainer back if they're dissatisfied? So why do clients of graphic designers think otherwise? It's really starting to piss me off. My gut told me not to accept this job, but I did out of desperation and lack of finances, and now this guy has been a constant pain in my ass ever since. I try to explain to him that designers should not do spec work, but it just goes right over his head. OH well.

Suzanne Maestri-Walters :: Graphic Designer

Here's a good site that backs us up in NOT doing spec work: http://www.no-spec.com

Does your contract state how you deal with this situation? Mine has a termination clause that says if the client is not satisfied they pay a 'kill fee' that is either half the total job or for the work that's been done--whichever is greater. This commits both them and you to the project.

I've heard of other arrangements such as the 1/3 to start the project, 1/3 at the halfway point, and the remaining 1/3rd at the end of the project. This is good for larger projects so you don't starve while you're working. ;)

I recommend going over design needs before starting your jobs so you can head troublesome clients like this off at the pass.

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natobasso

I have seen that website, and I love it!!! I have bookmarked it, as well. But yes, I do have a contract and I have it in my contract that I expect 50% up front and then the balance before I release any or all final designs to the client. My contract is air-tight and very good (a good friend of mine is an estate lawyer and he has looked over it) however, with this particular client being from eBay, I don't exactly have the opportunity to present him with a contract. That's the downside of dealing with eBay—they pay in full via PayPal and then I send them one of my questionnaires to fill out (which is pretty specific so I know exactly what they're wanting out of their design).

But this guy, contacted me before he "purchased my auction" and asked if I would be willing to accept half up front and half later. I reluctantly agreed, but I explained to him that in the interim, I would only send him low-res pdfs for proofing, etc. He agreed, I agreed (like the schmuck that I am). But then for some reason, he went ahead and paid in full initially anyway. But you have to remember, that I am only charging a lousy $70 for a logo design through eBay with 3 revisions. Which as all of you know, that's a steal. I normally charge $30/hour when dealing with clients locally.

Since he paid in full, he wants half his money back. After I pulled myself off of the floor from laughing so hard, I explained to him that it is part of my job as a designer to ensure that he's satisfied. I have only done one revision so he technically has two more. He realizes that I am not giving him one cent back, so he is now "demanding" that I have this logo finished by tomorrow. Lovely! Which is fine, I don't mind working my tail off to make sure it's finished, but what if he doesn't like this revision?

Anyway, thanks for your advice, natabasso.

Suzanne Maestri-Walters :: Graphic Designer

If he doesn't like the revision then he can take his business elsewhere for a measly $70! What a jerk.

Personal feelings aside, if he read and accepted your terms then he doesn't have a leg to stand on and needs to keep his end of the bargain.

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natobasso

I agree. For a lousy $70, he is getting an excellent deal. My work is very good (not to pat myself on the back or anything), but I have seen other so-called "designers" on eBay who design logos from crappy templates & clipart with lots of drop shadows and gradients. Icckk!

I don't even know why I am getting upset. You're right. Because I have worked on this logo for several hours and because I have sent him proofs via e-mail, technically he can take those proofs anywhere and have them printed and used for his business. I have no idea. As far as I know, he could be a weasel and trying to get his money back and still use the logo. Not sure. I have no way of knowing since he's in Texas (or Florida??) and I'm in Colorado.

Thanks, natobasso (again)! :)

Suzanne Maestri-Walters :: Graphic Designer

You bet! Also remind your customers of the triangle of design, GOOD, FAST and CHEAP. Tell all your clients that they get to pick only two, the third you put 'not' behind. For example, if he wants it cheap and fast then it's 'not GOOD'. Meaning the quality will suffer.

He can't pay $70 and expect a great logo done quickly. It's just not physically (or professionally!) possible. If he wants to be the proud owner of a $70 logo that he'll use for 5-10 years, that's his delusion and it's unfortunate but all too common.

My current logo/avatar is a gentle and constant reminder to all my clients of this fact of the creative business.
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natobasso

Finally, some perspective to the idiocy that's out there lurking among us—our pain-in-the-ass clientele. I realize that they are our bread & butter, however, but why do they have to be so ignorant??? LOL

Suzanne Maestri-Walters :: Graphic Designer

Found this through designobserver.com:
http://www.thestreet.com/_tscrss/smallbiz/entrepreneur/10327402.html

It's a GREAT article on the basics of logo design that I think even the most dense client could understand. ;) It's helped me realize some things that I knew intrinsically but couldn't put into words.

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natobasso

I don't know if you would have gone to jail over that, but you definitely would/could have been sued over it, which even so, isn't worth it. Especially since it's your name and your reputation on the line if/when being sued. Good for you for standing up to your boss.

I have told MANY clients in the past about copyright issues, and they just don't seem to get it. They think because the logo they're desiring is in another state or city, that it isn't a big deal. It's pathetic. I try to explain to them (copyright laws aside) that wouldn't they rather have a logo design that's unique and their own??? Sometimes, when dealing with these clients, I find they're not only stubborn but ignorant.

All the education in the world would not make a client change his/her mind. It usually comes down (at least in the bigger companies) to what the 'Head-man' wants. If he wants to name his new car 'mud' he's paying the salaries, do it. However there is a way to protect your '@ss' as it were. If you let them sign a disclaimer stating that youre not in the business of plagarising, and they sign it, then you can just produce it when the time's right. You could hide it within your general contract. There is no simple answer though. . . we've had clients take OUR designs and get other agencies do what they want with the ideas/designs etc. Now that's plagiarism from the other side! lol