how much to charge...
ipure (160 pencils) | Mon, 2008-03-10 03:38I've been picking up a lot of free lance stuff lately, I already have a set hourly rate. but I always have a hard time figuring out what to charge when asked for a quote...
I have one I have to write up pretty soon that includes
cd cover (just the disc)
website template (no coding just a slice-able design)
templates for pdf. mainly text
the some brochure inserts
I usually charge 35 hr... I"m just worried about charging to little and finding out its a bigger pain in the butt then its worth...
Commenting on this Forum topic is closed.
Charge the market rate in your area. 35 sounds low for my area, but it may be average for yours. Remember, you only get what you negotiate.
See more threads on cb here on this topic; you'll find what you need on this link:
http://creativebits.org/search/node/how+much+to+charge
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Powerpoint is not a design application
flikWORLD Design
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Dirt and Rust
I agree with Nat: $35 seems really low. I think the average, even in weak markets, is about twice that. But only you know what your market will bear, given your competition and your own level of expertise. Whatever you decide on for an hourly rate, be sure you cover yourself for how many hours you'll really put into this job. That's my weakness -- I almost always underestimate. Also be sure to include a markup on reimbursements for any out-of-pocket expenses you incur that wouldn't be considered just the normal cost of doing business (CD label stock, for example). If you broker the printing of the brochure inserts, you should get a good deal with a to-the-trade commercial printer so you can mark the job up and still come in lower than local retail printers.
Aside to Nat -- thanks for that "inside link." Looks like a helpful addition to AIGA and GAG advice.
Mara
Hey, no worries!
By the way, when I estimate time I leave it as an estimate till it's an invoice. That way if the project gets close to going over budget I can warn the client. More often than not, the client accepts the increased billing especially if the delays/billing increase is a direct result of their actions.
Don't make that estimate an invoice till the job is done. :)
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Powerpoint is not a design application
flikWORLD Design
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Dirt and Rust
thanks guys thats helpful. I work In house for a furniture company, and just started doing some extra stuff to get some extra income because I recently got engaged(yahoo!)
so I started out low. but I have put into each contract that in June I will be changing my rates. I will double it by then for sure.
do you mind me asking how much you would charge for something like this?
Thanks for the advice Nat, I wish I had done that on a project I'm just finishing up... I'm still making a killing off it.. but my log of hours shows!
No worries on the advice! I have to say I don't have time to do the quote for you (he he) but I'd agree with the statement that you should find other designers in your area and interview them. The rates where I live may be vastly different compared to yours.
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Powerpoint is not a design application
flikWORLD Design
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Dirt and Rust
Call up design firms in your area and ask them for a quote. Ask them how much they would charge hourly. You can gauge that way from firms in your area ( maybe even freelancers) Here's a link to another interesting article I found.
http://www.howdesign.com/article/hourlyrates/
P.S. I'm glad you have a lot of business coming in. If you don't mind, can I ask you some questions when starting up? Mainly, incorporating. There's also drafting of contracts, work orders, Terms and Conditions are stuff I have come up with. Any tips or suggestions to add? Now that I think about it, this should be a new thread! :P
Leaky Penny
Check out what I've been up to lately!
http://petersonjoseph.com
I'm going to print it out and eat it.
-Unknown Artist
Guess I was looking for a easy way out Nato.. haha. thanks anyways.
Artfiend, since I was not really looking for starting as a free lance it kind of came as a shock to me to have to write up contracts and quotes and all that stuff. I did go ahead and make a couple of simple templets for each after doing a lot of research online as to what to include/look out for. my biggest time saver I have found so far is the program –On the Job.
http://stuntsoftware.com/OnTheJob/
its really really simple to use. and keeps all projects organized and keeps precise time on each project. as well as it makes really nice invoices at the click of a button! and its only $25.
I'm definitely going to have to give it a try. If it does all that it claims it does and does it well, it definitely is worth the price. Thanks bud, and good luck!
Leaky Penny
Check out what I've been up to lately!
http://petersonjoseph.com
I'm going to print it out and eat it.
-Unknown Artist
.....
Leaky Penny
Check out what I've been up to lately!
http://petersonjoseph.com
I'm going to print it out and eat it.
-Unknown Artist
In my area, the hourly rate generally runs from $75 to $225. It hinges on the experience of the designer and the type of work involved.
By the way, good exercise posted by artfiend on HOW's site. The salary worksheet was a great method to arrive at an hourly rate.
There are also some other useful tools at:
http://www.creativelatitude.com/links/resources_downloads.html
ttfn!
3dogmama
"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber
most studios and many individuals charge by the project, not by the hour. you use that hourly rate you come up with to create your bid for the job. your bid and the contract should include XX reviews in it and hourly rates for additional work that's not in the original scope of the contract (i.e., changes they make to the scope, additional rounds of reviews, etc.). that allows you to still make $XX on a project, whether your concepting time is the 25 hours you built your bid on or if you nail it right off the bat in 5 hours. remember, a good concept has the same value to the client regardless of whether you spent 5 hours on it or 50 hours (as long as the concept is just as good either way).
charging by the project has plusses and minuses. you can end up making significantly more per hour if you work more efficiently. and the client gets a better up-front understanding of what this is going to cost them. they know it won't go over XX if they don't change scope.
the downside for you is that you have to manage yourself better to stay within your budget because going over on hours hurts you, not them (unless it's for a scope change). and you have to manage them as far as the scope changes. but that's the model every studio i've ever worked with/for goes by for most of their work. hourly rates are used for estimating, not for billing.
Excellent point about flat fees as well
Leaky Penny
Check out what I've been up to lately!
http://petersonjoseph.com
I'm going to print it out and eat it.
-Unknown Artist
...now I know you're in Ontario 3dog, but those rates are waaay better than what I charge. I've never gone over 50$ an hour. I guess a lot of things have to be taken into consideration: experience, services offered, overhead... Whereabouts exactly are you?
Here's something else I had from way back when, this guy really breaks it down
http://www.creativelatitude.com/neils_newbies/neils_newbies_0206.html
Leaky Penny
Check out what I've been up to lately!
http://petersonjoseph.com
I'm going to print it out and eat it.
-Unknown Artist
$50 an hour in Toronto? Come on. The cheapest guy in my area--which is outside of the GTA-- is $75 an hour. And I know some guys that won't even get out of bed in the morning if the project's less than $100K. Art, you need to factor in your base salary, taxes, overhead, profit, and cost of living (especially in TO).
Since I've left the family biz this year, I've adjusted my rate to approximately $100 per hour as I'm working from the home and have a much-reduced overhead. However, I don't tell the client what I charge per hour; I just provide a bid with one price and provisions for two sets of moderate revisions. Anything over that the clock and meter start running. The ONLY time I go in low is if the person is a close acquaintance, or it's a non-profit group that cannot afford my services.
ttfn!
3dogmama
"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber
However, artfiend, I could be half your speed at design and we could be making the same hourly dollar amount.
ttfn!
3dogmama
"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber
I'm still working on rates I used in Montreal. Lower cost of living, smaller market, way more saturated industry due to the sheer amount of schools who produce designers and Illustrators we are unfortunately a dime a dozen. Jobs started anywhere 9$ - 10$/ hour to the highest I've ever seen of 17$/hour. I've been in Mississauga for about 7 months now and only had a handful of contracts. to be honest, I haven't been actively searching because I am presently taking a year off creating some new artwork and recreating my site and portfolio. Those few jobs I've had were done at my Montreal rates, but upon doing my research I have in fact been practically "giving away" my work. Oh well, I'm currently rehashing my pricing guide, rates and terms and conditions as I have recently added web design to my services as well. From what I've seen, the move from Montreal to here was one of the best since I've decided to work for myself.
Leaky Penny
Check out what I've been up to lately!
http://petersonjoseph.com
I'm going to print it out and eat it.
-Unknown Artist
Remember, you usually get about half of what you charge due to taxes and expenses.
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Powerpoint is not a design application
flikWORLD Design
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Dirt and Rust
Every client is different. As a creative you have to be compensated for your work. Knowing your abilities and understanding your client is fundamental to pricing. A very successful business man once told me: “squeeze ‘em ‘til they squeal and then back off a bit”. This advice has worked for me. Don’t sell yourself short, there will always be someone cheaper, but price is only part of the picture. Building relationships and providing good value is far more important than hourly rates.
Life is short, enjoy your work and make some money.
Might I offer a resource for you to get a handle on your base starting fee...
http://freelanceswitch.com/rates/
Freelance switch is a relatively new site, but it contains a WEALTH of information regarding these issues. Highly recommended.
Also, I would caution against doubling your rates at such an early point. If I want to give my clients a "discount" I usually give it to them in the form of free work hours that they don't know about. I always charge my base rate. ($75/hour in central california)
I started browsing through it the other day, along with this one, http://thelittlechimpsociety.com , which has some really good reading material.
Another one I'm exploring right now on my free time is http://www.behance.net/ which also is an excellent resource.
Leaky Penny
Check out what I've been up to lately!
http://petersonjoseph.com
I'm going to print it out and eat it.
-Unknown Artist
has a good article about setting rates. including average rates from different regions.
Salary.com is another good one, but more for full-time designer salaries rather than freelance...
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Powerpoint is not a design application
flikWORLD Design
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Dirt and Rust
Aye yi yi... I need help.
I designed a t-shirt for this dude. It has about 16-18 caricatures on it (e.g. a whole extended family). It took me about 5.25 hours to do. I was going to charge $20/hr (I live in Indiana here, people). I normally just charge $30 for a company but since it's not something they are making a profit from, I figured I would lower it pretty substantially.
So, that's $105. What do you think?
It is what it is. What I mean is if you were going to charge them $20/hr, then the math is correct. I am not sure if you are asking whether we think it is too low or too high.
i agree w/mbennett, it is what it is. if you're comfortable w/$100, then i'd go that way (and i'd round down to $100, myself). did you talk with them about an estimate ahead of time? do they have any expectations of what the cost will be?
Hey Pokie!
I think it's low and I'll tell you why. Yes, you have to adjust your pricing for your area, but you also have to take into account that after taxes, equip depreciation and your training costs you basically lose 1/2 your earnings right off the bat. Basically you're charging $10/hr for what sounds like pretty custom work.
Don't think that it's not your client's job to pay for your costs, because that's exactly what they should do! Just look at any commodity sold -- cars, food, etc. -- and their prices have the cost built in. The only difference with design is that it's a service/time rather than as many "real" costs like shipping or fuel costs appear to be on the surface.
You need to make money and deserve to get paid what you're worth. I'd say you're not charging enough, especially if you have more than 5 years of experience and you're doing custom, non computerized art that no one else can reproduce.
Also, you're remembering to keep ownership of your designs, right? If not, you're losing out on this money as well unless you had a work-for-hire arrangement in which case you should stop that now. :)
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Powerpoint is not a design application
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Dirt and Rust
What do you mean by keeping ownership? I did have to give the printer my illustrator files so they could print it.
The whole cost thing on this job is very complicated. This is one of the VP's at my current full time gig. My boss set me up with him but the way of meeting and everything and the fact that he's a VP and my boss was there, I didn't specify an amount upfront. Just told him that I would bill him.
He did tell me at one point not to "worry" about the costs (re: number of colors on the t-shirt). I'm just second guessing myself.
Don't you have to make a certain amount a year freelancing to have to claim it?
The IRS wants you to claim every dollar you make. Now whether you do or not...
As far as the fees, you do whatever you feel comfortable with. If it is $100, then it is $100. I always try to look at jobs as if I will get enough work from the client to fill my time, then I ask if I could live off of that. If the answer is yes, then you are probably in the right area.
That being said, if there are other factors (like facetime with a bigwig), then you kinda have to arbitrarily figure that in, and if you want, cut the cost. Just remember this, he makes more money than you and can probably afford $100 for artwork, if not more. Don't feel sorry for him...
You own ALL your work unless stated otherwise in your contract. Doesn't matter to whom you give your file, you own it. If someone wants exclusive rights to use the file in perpetuity, you sign that over with a rights fee. Don't just give this up because it's future potential income.
Tell your printer that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES are they to surrender that print file to the client. However, if you've sold the rights to it, then it's the client's file anyway.
If you do work for someone and they want a "work-for-hire" arrangement, back away slowly. They are trying to rip you off by avoiding having to pay or not own the art outright or they just don't know any better. Either way is less money for you.
Check with your tax accountant but you have to claim ALL of your income. Whether you pay on it is another story. The gov wants its money. If you make less than your expenses I think the Fed Gov will let you do that for 3-5 years before disallowing those deductions. But don't quote me on that.
You are deducting meetings, travel, phone calls, etc. right?
Just because your clients are your bosses doesn't preclude you from charging your normal rate; in fact you were given carte blanche to charge whatever you wanted!
"He did tell me at one point not to "worry" about the costs (re: number of colors on the t-shirt)".
Don't be afraid to ask for what you want. You can always lower your prices, but it's a lot harder to raise them.
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Powerpoint is not a design application
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Dirt and Rust
Thanks you guys, as usual :)
Try to increase your fees slowly. Charge 10% more every 3-6 month or so. It's fair because with experience your work gets better at least that much.
We all need to support each other by educating our clients on the value of what we do. While we all have some "talent", most of us have spent years in school followed by having to keep up with technology continuously. (They don't need to know we love it and would do it for free!)
Charging too little, devalues all of us. I charge $75/hour in Arizona. I often underestimate hours but for a reason. I'm new to web design and it takes me longer. I don't charge my client for my inexperience but my rates still look compatible with the area. When I do get the occasional print job (not many these days) I can estimate accurately due to experience.
Track your hours for each job and you'll get better at estimating with time. A lesson I'm still learning.
And do look into rights/usage. Very important!
You need to charge 50 per hour! as its industry rate by 000-253
Hold on: What area are you talking about?! Price has a lot to do with what the market will bear. $50/hr in a major city, maybe, but probably less somewhere more remote.
Price also depends on the skills required and the costs required as well. A more experienced designer can charge more for his/her services.
You might want to qualify your comment just a tad. :D
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Dirt and Rust