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TylerR_NKY's picture
239 pencils

I hate Quark

Please tell me I'm not alone in this. You'd think more places would use ID by now!

'I am a patient boy, I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait'

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3dogmama's picture
1994 pencils

I work in Quark and InDesign. Both have their pros and cons.
I was becoming frustrated for a bit with Quark, but they've fixed the glitches concerning duotones and PDFs.
What are you having issues with in Quark? Maybe I or others here can help.

"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber

TylerR_NKY's picture
239 pencils

I'm blowing off steam because I went to an interview and their practice test was in Quark. Not trying to make excuses for not finishing it in time but there preferences were different so barely any of the shortcuts I was used to worked properly.

I just don't get places that are like "Well, we do everything on Creative Suite except we don't use InDesign, we use Quark!' Ugh.
- thanks

'I am a patient boy, I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait'

gwells's picture
1705 pencils

if you get stuck in that spot again, and the computer you're using has internet access, make sure you know a link for (or google it) all of the quark shortcuts. that's what i used to do when i freelanced in other peoples' offices and had to use quark.

some shops are just quark shops and always have been. quark still has a decent chunk of the market.

3dogmama's picture
1994 pencils

What version of Quark was it? I went from Quark 4, just learning 5 to 7, and the shortcuts had changed quite a bit.

I know it sucks, but you might want to learn the latest version of Quark's shortcuts IF you need to go to another interview. If you're the designer they're looking for you're hired. You'll learn the shortcuts quick.

Cheers.
3dog.

"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber

TylerR_NKY's picture
239 pencils

Quark 7 is what I used at my last job, but these guys looked like they were back on 5. This is a Fortune 1000 company too, you figure they'd keep up, but meh.

The other thing is, I don't know if it was the Mac preferences or the Quark preferences but a lot of the shortcuts weren't working right. I had twenty minutes to do this layout, and hit my stride at about the 15 minute mark.

On to the next I guess. Thanks for the advice, man.
- thanks

'I am a patient boy, I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait'

gwells's picture
1705 pencils

you'd be surprised at how often the bigger companies don't keep up with software upgrades.

my wife works for a fortune 100 company and, as recently as 9 months ago, her laptop was running windows 2000.

3dogmama's picture
1994 pencils

The bigger companies do tend to hang on to the older software. I suppose it costs them more to upgrade 1000's of stations rather than one. And then you have the train/re-train curve overshadowing all that junk.

What's a designer to do? ;)
Hope you get the job. But you may have to B.Y.O.S.
Cheers.
3dog

"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber

gwells's picture
1705 pencils

big company + BYOS = fired or, at least, reprimanded. big companies don't like you installing your own software on their computers. not to mention the whole "not compatible with the rest of the company" stuff. ;)

pokie's picture
1198 pencils

I think she meant bring your own... SHORTCUTS...

3dogmama's picture
1994 pencils

Nope (but thanks). Meant software, and only as a parodical comment.

I've hired people before and knew that they had better systems and more updated software at home, but as with all of us, I work with cash flow. Each year has to have its business expenditures earmarked...this year a tablet, next year CS4. This year a dock, next year a tractor...

"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber

gwells's picture
1705 pencils

oh yes, it's all about cashflow and return on investment, regardless of what size company you are.

i've never worked anywhere that i had a better system at work than at home. closest was just the monitor, when they gave me dual 20" LCDs at work and i only had 20"/19" at home. ;) but i'm a geek.

pokie's picture
1198 pencils

That's horrible. Both myself and husband have cutting edge at work.... at home, we have a new iMac but still on CS1...

gwells's picture
1705 pencils

it's not really horrible, i stay pretty current and top-of-the-line at home. i like computer gaming, so i can't fall too far behind the curve.

pokie's picture
1198 pencils

I meant that it's horrible that your work doesn't try to keep you updated.

gwells's picture
1705 pencils

well, i probably didn't say it well, but it's more that i stay ahead of the curve than that they're behind it. the machine i have at work is pretty decent specs and a year old. it's just that i'm more cutting edge at home. because i can.

TylerR_NKY's picture
239 pencils

I have brought work home to work on a decent setup before!

I think I'm already over this prospect anyway. I'm really not feeling the corporate ogre when I can make as much at a small biz. That is if I can find a small biz with an opening!

- thanks

'I am a patient boy, I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait'

gwells's picture
1705 pencils

i've never found a studio that would pay me as much as a corporate inhouse gig. could just be me, tho.

i've enjoyed working in both, very different atmospheres and positives and negatives to both. and even inhouse, i've worked from 35 person company to 200 person to 7000 person (currently) to 70,000.

i like the current job very much. especially with a very stable company that actually made its numbers last year and a 15% net profit. and my office actually has a backlog of work.

TylerR_NKY's picture
239 pencils

I'm at low man on the totem poll status. I've had two real jobs, the first I really enjoyed was pre-press and ad design for a small printing press. My bosses were cool, there was variety in the work loads and I felt like I was contributing to it's growth. Unfortunately a bunch of BS drove it out of business. The second was doing production for a corporate job and I wasn't paid anymore, and pretty much hated it.

Really, I'm too wet behind the ears to know where I really fit in. I do know I enjoy the small business atmosphere way more.

- thanks

'I am a patient boy, I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait'

gwells's picture
1705 pencils

honestly, it would be a bad thing if quark went away. as much as i love indesign and am not planning on going back to quir... i mean... quark any time soon, adobe needs competition.

oblivion4evr's picture
11 pencils

I use to be a senior prepress operator for a large printer so we had to know every software you can think of very well in both platforms. Back 6yrs ago quark was the thing to use and Indesign sucked the big one but now, Quark is trying to throw as many doo dads, bells and whistles in it to make it more marketable but its loosing its focus of page layout, IMO! That said Indesign is pretty intuitive if you know how the CS suite works in general you can pretty much maneuver fairly well. If you had to jump into Quark from scratch, knowing Illustrator and Photoshop you would be super screwed, no shortcuts are even similar except for what, paste. It would be an extremely frustrating learning curve. They are also extremely pompous of their software, remember the stupid dongles! I hated that!

May have got off track a little but I hate quark too :)

TylerR_NKY's picture
239 pencils

It's the damn shortcuts!!! I'm not working right now, so I spend all day on my home CS3 setup. Quark is just poopy.

- thanks

'I am a patient boy, I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait'

Ivan's picture

We haven't worked in Quark for over 8 years now.

JimD's picture
2617 pencils

I really freaking hate it when a company looks at you resume, your portfolio, asks you questions (face to face in an interview) - and then ask you to take a test.

I refuse to indulge them anymore. First off, do I ask Honda to take apart the car and rebuild it while I'm standing there, just to make sure they know how to build a car? No.

Second, they purposely set you up with f#cked-up files to see if you catch all the mistakes. Those files contain things that not even a 1st year designer would do. Stupid.

And third, if I really wanted to, I could turn the tables on them, lock them out of their own computers, shut down the server, and password the computer and tell them to call me if they would like to gain access to their computer. (Jokingly of course).

Those tests are the "production artist" equivilent of spec work.

-----------
Visit The Graphic Mac for graphics and Mac OS tips, reviews, tutorials and discussion.

pokie's picture
1198 pencils

I agree while disagreeing. We have a test where I work and I missed one (couldn't remember how to make a clipping mask in illustrator-- big woop, they showed me where it is)... another girl struggled on all of the stuff. Yet they hired both of us. Guess who still mucks stuff up? Now, this isn't always going to show who is a good artist and who isn't. And you know, it's clear that they know who they want after the interview. The test is just there.
I think it's a good tool (ours isn't "design this layout", it's more along the lines proving you know how to use the tools and can do separations, etc) if they'd use it.

gwells's picture
1705 pencils

i guess it depends on the people doing the hiring, then, and how well they do at interviewing people.

i don't ever remember making a mistake and hiring someone who couldn't do what they represented. i do remember not hiring people because, after talking to them in an interview, i knew they were full of shit (or at least partially loaded) and they were talking a better game than they could bring.

honestly, imo (and it really is just my opinion and what works for me), tests are a waste of time. but maybe that's because i can spot a phony very quickly in an interview. and the longer you've been in the business (which won't apply to everyone here), the sillier the idea of a "software" test gets to be.

maybe if i was hiring a production artist right out of school, it might make more sense for me. but even then, i can train software, but i don't want to teach design and creativity. and that's what i want to hire. anyone with common sense and an understanding of design can, if they apply themselves, learn the software. but not anyone can learn to have good ideas.

natobasso's picture
3954 pencils

I totally agree with you on this. And I don't trust companies that do "tests" as part of the interview process. Isn't the interview a test enough of a gauge of a designer's ability?! If not, the interview process needs to be reexamined.

The last company I did a "test" for ended up being one of the worst jobs I've ever had in my entire life.

----
Natobasso
dirtandrust.com
"Powerpoint is not a design application"

Kscho77's picture
38 pencils

I was hired on a quark test. I was unaware of this practice when I got in to the workforce and was thrown for a loop. I was just out of college and they sat me down to build a "live job" tri-fold brochure from the ground up. Needless to say I was sweating bullets during the entire test. I didn't do to great on the test but they hired me anyways. My sad salary pretty much reflected my performance on that test but most of the design and production principles I use today have been taken for that first job. For that I am very thankful. The test also gave me a wake up call that I need to be wise to all keyboard shortcuts and know my software inside and out.

I don't like the idea of giving software tests to prospective hires. However, I do see the practical/business reasons for it. As an employee, you are their investment and it just makes sense to protect their interests before they hand out a contract. Especially in a production environment, (which is where most new hires are going) your efficiency is key.

3dogmama's picture
1994 pencils

I've hired people that know the programs, or whom are open to learning on the fly, but in retrospect, I would have gone with the more creative hire. As gwells commented, programs can be taught; creativity is either there or I don't have the credentials to develop.

"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber

Kscho77's picture
38 pencils

However, I do think that is not too much to ask that a prospective hire be creative and efficient. I have not yet been in a position to hire creative staff. But I believe that if I am investing in your services, you better be able to perform on all levels. I also expect that anyone contracting my services should expect the same.

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