Logo Needs Your Critique!
OneLife (13 pencils) | Fri, 2008-12-19 21:00
This logo is for a new church set to launch next Fall in Knoxville TN. Our target is 18-34 year olds, specifically those who wouldn't ordinarily go to church. We are in a major college town and want to tap into that demographic and the large population of newlyweds/young families in our part of the community. We don't want to be very "churchy" in any of our branding. Please give first impressions of this logo and HONEST feed back, both good and bad.
Commenting on this Image is closed.
I like the color coordinations with this one. I think the "L" should have and extra grey "dot" extending from the leg of the "L". I almost didn't catch that it was a 1 and an L. Other than that I think it looks edgy and young (which is the kind of audience your trying to target.
Agree with Sammy - the L needs to be extended, although you might lose the balance of the mark then.
You need to work on your tracking. The space between L and i compared to O and n for example. Personally, I'd tighten it up more.
Colours are nice and earthy clean. Good job.
Mint
The Construct Agency
Building Creative Brands for People
I like it but it doesn't look "churchy"
if the word "church" was't there, I'd never know that was what it was for, and there may be times when you want to use the symbol without the text.
"...and mamma cried: Watch out where the huskies go, don't you eat that yellow snow" - Frank Zappa
i got the impression the OP wasn't going for a "churchy" look.
Exactly...we intentionally don't want to look churchy. Our entire strategy is to be unconventional in terms of what people think of when they think of church. We will definitely use the logo without the word "church" i.e. on a billboard that just uses the mark and "OneLife - yours can make a difference" along with our web address. This would be to hopefully get people to check it out who ordinarily wouldn't.
We fixed the tracking and moved the mark to be closer to "One" and consistent with the tracking of the text. It made a big difference. We also made the circles smaller which helped the font not look as skinny. But adding that extra circle to extend the L took away the subtlety. Here's the updated version.
Any more thoughts? Thanks for all of your help!
www.creativescribble.com
www.creativescribble.com
Sweet...will definitely try that. We just made the tracking 6 points between each letter. But I see what you mean.
Any other feedback? you guys have been a great help!
www.creativescribble.com
My goodness. Where does one begin. First, colors/font/copy all suggest technology rather than spirituality. Understanding you are targeting a younger audience does not mean abandoning target message. Tucking "church" at bottom end, smaller font is dismissive at best. Try rethinking and see how "spiritual community" works. At any rate, think about being honest rather than being different. There is a clear and well defined style for this genre so I'd like to see an evolution rather than a Web 2.0 religious revolution.
Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.
I have to disagree.
The greens represented in this logo can symbolise the following:
Dark Green:Trustworthy, Refreshing, Restful, Stately, Traditional, Reliable.
Lime (bright): Fresh, Youthful, Refreshing.
Considering the target market, the colours are spot on.
In this situation their being different is being honest. The "clear and well defined" style for this genre (let's assume Christianity, since it says church) has been redefined many times over in the last 2000 years. In this case the idea is to break the "clear and well defined" mindset that has been established and to say; "Religion doesn't always work the way you think."
On 1 point I do agree - community is organic, and although the colours scream organic, the logo mark does not.
The Construct Agency
Building Creative Brands for People
I hate to beat a dead horse, but since you're nudging it permit me to wail on it until it stops twitching.
First of all, the mark prominently features a Bauhaus style font from Weimar Republic Germany, 1920. The movement was motivated by Modernism which was characterized by deviations from the norms of society. In Modernism school of thought, experimentation was encouraged and tradition was seen as impediment to human progress.
Secondly, the color scheme. Neon green & black. Please note that this green doesn't exist in nature, so I hesitate even calling it green because it belongs in the color family where high-tech orange came from and has no history of symbolism. Both colors are so vividly outside of the natural world they instantly communicate they are from cyberspace and that is why they are used nearly exclusively in every web 2.0 logo.
I'm seeing 'experimental', 'deviation from norm of society', 'cyberspace' (and to top it all off, in a smaller font) church. But while we're attempting to be experimental, why are we using traditional "black" instead of blue or purple or....ANYTHING? Christianity has two-thousand years of symbols and color symbolism, and black isn't one of the nicer symbols.
And the dots. Remove them and there is nothing lost in the mark. Nuff said.
Some would argue the critique is over thought. Average joe target audience won't 'get it' but that is misguided. These colors, these shapes, these fonts MEAN something. That greater communication is not lost on the audience even if initial reaction is "looks cool".
--Kevin
Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.
Pretty high-tech and organic looking. Nothing like a church. Actually because of this once I learned it's for a church I felt it was dishonest. I understand your intentions, but I think it will backfire. Be honest is my suggestion.
Ivan, I checked out your site and noticed your 2bits logo is very similar in color. Who are they targeting and what are they trying to reach? Why did you choose those colors for them? Thanks!
www.creativescribble.com
2bits is a technology solutions company. The premise is that they make companies (they work for) grow through their IT solutions. The grey stands for metal, technology, hard facts, corporate world. The green stands for nature and growth. The green also gives associations to matrix style high-tech.
Sorry to be so late chiming in on this, OneLife. I'm going to agree with caoimghgin and Ivan. I'll go further and say that this logo is wrong in so many ways I don't know where to start.
It's disjointed, has no soul -- sorry, but that's key, unless you're trying to appeal to circuit boards instead of people -- and the artistic rendering is prickly. The roundness of the Bauhaus font and the dots don't do enough to alleviate the harsh linearity of the design.
Rather than trying to introduce the warmth and unity of circles by using them as disjointed individual elements of a linear design, please consider a design that it itself rounded, circular, and dynamic. Please also consider a color that is, if not warmer, at least not so acidic.
You can also benefit by giving the word "church" as much importance as "one" and "life" in your design. Think of the power and stability of the number three, its relation to the Christian concept of Trinity, and perhaps use that subliminally to your advantage.
Mara
Thanks, Mara! Great thoughts. What do you mean by prickly?
www.creativescribble.com
Sharp, edgy, unpleasant. Not communal and inviting.
Mara
Ivan and Cao,
Thanks for your thoughts. However, for healthy argument's sake let me throw a couple things out there. First of all, (this is trivial at best) but it isn't black. It's a gray.
Second of all, from an overall branding standpoint I think you are making some good points for why we are leaning toward using this logo in arguing that the logo doesn't work for a church. First of all, being different doesn't mean dishonest. In saying that it is dishonest to not look like a "church" shows that you are bringing preconceived notions of what church is supposed to look and feel like. That is the exact stereotype we are attempting to avoid. Additionally, in our strategy, crosses, thorns, blood, and other symbols are sacred icons that should be reserved for explanation in a controled environment, not a logo on a billboard that will get a passing glance. Finally, as mintsauce said being different in this case is being honest. If the logo looked "churchy" and someone came to a service that meets in a high school where the music was rocking, people weren't dressed up, and the production resemebled that of a modern concert or theatrical event, that would be dishonest.
So in all of that these comments somewhat show us that our logo works in accomplishing our goal of communicating that this church will be different. Because again, different doesn't mean dishonest.
Finally, high-tech is exactly what we are going for. The message of Christianity has never changed in 2000 years but the methods of spreading that message have. Statistics are unbelievable in terms of how many churched kids graduate high school and never go back to church because they see it as irrelevant. In a community that is 3rd behind only New York and LA for production and is home to a major university (30,000 students), this is the exact target we are shooting for. There are plenty of churches reaching those who would be drawn by a traditional, churchy look.
So what we need help with is developing a look and brand that will reach them. And this board is being a huge help in doing that! So thanks.
www.creativescribble.com
Being different isn't all there is to expressing your church's mission in its logo. If that were all there was to it, anything would do that didn't have an identifiably Christian icon in it.
I understand that you want to emphasize high-tech, for some reason. I don't quite understand the reason for this, since your congregation will meet in flesh space, not only online, and you haven't told us that the music at services will be exclusively industrial or something like that. I feel it's possible to be high-tech without being cold and linear. In fact, I think it's vital to achieve that. People will be coming to your services for a sense of community. Nothing about your design is inviting that way.
Mara
I look at this logo and I see a high-tech company dealing with perhaps something genetic or cell engineering. And, what do I get? A new age church masquerading as a high-tech gadget.
I'm not saying to use blood and cross, but stay true to your product. Would you feel it would be right if a genetic engineering company were using the cross as their logo? Of course not. It's the same case with your logo. You won't dress up as a fireman on your wedding, and you won't be showing up at firestation for work in a tuxedo. Symbols are not just meaningless shapes, they have meaning and they should be used to convey an honest message.
I can accept the argument that it communicates it's a different church. And the logo would work if your premise would be something that is linked to the logo. I don't know if this is the case. Is it in some way a high-tech church? Are you into numerology or biology?
At last, a personal note. The christian church's history is filled with stories about deception and misleading people. It may not be the case with this church, but make sure your logo doesn't make people think something different at first from what they will find once they get to know the church.
I can see you're committed to this treatment so I won't flail the horse again. Instead, I'll ask you to consider communicating the aspect of church service that you described.
>> meets in a high school where the music was rocking...and the production resemebled that of a modern concert or theatrical event...
Now, that sounds pretty exciting! Let's go in that direction!
****** DUDE, JESUS ROCKS YOUR WORLD! *****
Your market research will show target audience are big fans of tattoos (amazingly high percentage of 18-30 year olds either have them, want them or like them).
Now how's that for non-traditional?
Suggest experimenting with organic shapes in asymmetrical/tribal 'tattoo' style (asymmetrical/tribal is very much in vogue). If the design incorporates traditional christian symbols the mark will immediately communicate, "church" and "non-conventional" as well.
Surprisingly, there is an abundance of common design elements between old Christian illuminated manuscripts and modern (even biker) tattoos. Consider the venerable gothic font, to take one example.
Actually, I'm excited about seeing such a treatment and hope you'll consider experimenting with it and posting for critique.
Cheers!
Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.
An example of the asymmetrical/tribal/tattoo style I'm referring to can be seen here.
Without my sense of direction, I don't know where I'd be.
look:
Religion is not like soda where you see a billboard and say "hmmm, Suddenly I have a craving for that Religion!"
People either want to go to church, or they don't.... If they want to go to one, they look one up... they try several out and pick one because they have something in common with the others who go there. if they want one that's different, they're still looking for a church!
so if you want them to find it, you need to be churchy. It can have a religious feel and still be "Church 2.0" Many newer churches do it, yours can too! Most "born again" churches are much less formal and meet in gyms and rented space, even people's homes. and they play live rock music too, all in all, as far as I can tell without sitting in on a session, yours is not really a new idea, just another spin-off.
otherwise, I agree with Ivan, people want an honest church. It kind of goes with the territory. the best bet is to attract people who are looking for a new church, not the ones who aren't. Failing to tell people that you are a church as a means to get them to check you out is being dishonest, not being different. Having a tatoo for a logo however, would certainly be different.
One thing to remember is that logos represent the message... from your description, your message seems to be "you only have one life in which to earn your trip to heaven" but your logo is just "you only have one life"
"...and mamma cried: Watch out where the huskies go, don't you eat that yellow snow" - Frank Zappa
"One Life" is a little more along the lines of "Yours can make a difference." There's a lot more to the Christian life than getting fire insurance! Along those lines...We are not trying to get people to crave a religion. Religion is boring. We want them to crave a life that matters and inspire them to give God a chance to make that happen - not religion. That may not make a lot of sense without a lot of explanation but that's what growing churches these days are seeing work to attrack unchurched people.
www.creativescribble.com
My guess is the purpose of a billboard isn't so much to persuade someone to join the church as to maybe get them to look it up online. If so, then it's even more important to get the appealing idea of spiritual community through in the logo, to capture someone's imagination in that two-second driveby. No matter what the text message, nothing emotional is going to happen with a logo that could represent a bank, a used-car dealer, or a software manufacturer -- at least, not a particularly appealing one. And you know, a person actively seeking a church to attend might not even notice your billboard at all if it just looks like another of the slick commercial things they're hoping to leave behind for a few hours a week at the church they hope to find.
Mara
Some great inspiration here!
http://www.churchmedia.cc/
I have to say the logo is too mid 90s to really resonate with the 18-34 set, and I have to say that age range is quite broad! Good luck pleasing all of them. :) However, you're doing well, I don't think this logo has that many problems.
Do you have other thoughts on this logo? Other sketches?
----
Natobasso
dirtandrust.com
"Powerpoint is not a design application"
----
Dirt and Rust
Hey Gang,
Thanks a ton for all of the feedback, both positive and negative. And thanks to caoimghgin for a concept idea. Do any of you other folks who didn't like it have conceptual ideas? Or even want to throw a quick something together? I'd love to pass them on to my graphics guy and see what another treatment might look like. Yes we like this one (it came after several other failures) but if something better is out there, we'd go for it.
And Mara is right. The billboard idea would be to spur someone to check us out online. Nothing more. That's why even looking at just a logo is difficult because it will be wrapped in an overarching bran. But we want it to be able to stand alone as well.
So what do you think? Any other concepts to try like cao's tatoo idea? What would that even look like?
www.creativescribble.com
I'd love to pass them on to my graphics guy and see what another treatment might look like.
You mean...gulp...YOU'RE not the designer?
Oh.
Here's something you might pass along to your graphics guy. It's the other half of my point about the billboard drive-by: your logo needs to convey SPIRITUAL COMMUNITY. This one doesn't. We all seem to agree on that. You seem to think that's kind of cool, because you don't want the church's logo to carry any old Christian baggage that your narrow target audience might reject. This tells me you and your graphics guy and anyone else involved in selling this new church might benefit from a retreat, to focus on your mission. Right now, it seems poorly defined. That's reflected in the trouble you're having trying to articulate it in a logo.
Mara
Does it offend you that I'm not the actual designer? If so, I appologize. I routinely used the word "we" because that's what it is.
A couple of quick points for the sake of healthy debate. "We all seem to agree..." Actually, there have been 3 very positive critiques and 4 very negative. That's almost 50-50 and I'm simply trying to learn from you 4 or I would have been gone long ago.
"Narrow target" and "poorly defined" are hasty generalizations. I could send you many case studies of similar churches that we have studied and mounds of demographical research for my community to back up the underserved target and the strategies that are working around the US. We didn't arrive at this blindly or because it sounded "cool."
So remember, we are dealing with opinions. Not cold hard facts. That's why I will once again be open to suggestions and if there are no more, I'll say thanks for everyone's help. I look forward to continuing to learn more from you all in further suggestions or other critiques.
www.creativescribble.com
Nope -- not offended, just that this is a designer-to-designer forum, so we tend to "speak" to each other with that in mind, complete with jargon that might not resonate so much with people whose strengths lie in some other discipline; ergo, oops.
Have there only been 7 feedbacks? Oh. Then please forgive me. I had the feeling you were getting pretty much a general "start over, buddy" kind of message in this thread, overall. Weird how we filter things through our biases. Sorry about that.
There was nothing hasty about my decision to use the terms "narrow target" and "poorly defined." Those are exactly what I meant. Let me flesh my thoughts out a little bit.
You've told us that you're hoping to attract mostly college students and young families in a particular area -- that's a young demographic, roughly 18-34 years old. That may be an active and lucrative market in advertising terms, but it's a narrow slice of potential churchgoers. In my town, for example, over 50% of the population is over 50 years old; 27% is under 18. (And yes, we have a college.) So here, your target market would be well under 23% of the general population. You would reduce that figure further by eliminating people with no interest in attending any kind of Christian church, Christians with no interest in attending a church like yours, people who work or attend classes when your church has its activities and wouldn't be able to participate even if they wanted to, and many, many other factors. In other words? A narrow target market.
By "poorly defined," I mean that you're talking about one kind of church (unique, welcoming, entertaining, supportive, energizing and potentially transformative) but considering a logo to represent it that, to some of us here, seems cold, corporate, almost generic -- anything but what your church wants people to feel about it. When such a noticeable disconnect exists between the way an organization perceives itself and how it projects that perception to the public, the problem is often that the organization hasn't really thought enough, with lots of empathy and maybe even focus groups, about how its message is going to be received by its target market.
All marketing is dealing with opinions, you're so right about that, and it's a good thing to remember. But there are some things we can usually agree on when it comes to marketing design, especially branding. One of them is that the brand should represent the product. I'm secure in repeating that the one you've shown us doesn't do that, and encourage you to go back to basics about your marketing plan, then discuss your solutions with your designer, with a request for something that expresses them.
Good luck!
Mara
Agree with Ivan's comment regarding frankness and honesty. If you're a church group don't try and hide the fact to entice new members. Those interested in what the group represents and can offer them in the way of faith is what will bring them through your doors.
A few years ago I was the designer for Encounter 2005, a christian music concert. Marketing pieces included ads, posters, postcards, banners et al. And as you can see in this sample, there was no disguising who and what they represented, yet the target group seems to be of a similar demographic that you are going after...
"Those who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music."
"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber
how did you attach an image to this comment?
http://photobucket.com/
You set up an account for free and it even supplies the image tags for posting onto sites such as Ivan's.
"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber
I have a marketing ad agency devoted to ministries and church marketing so I can say with some knowledge, its good. Its not very churchy but its fresh, modern but I would suggest the same thing, add another dot to the right. Also, possibly play with where the two meet, mix the black and green and whatever color you come up with, use it as a bridge. I know it would make your image 3c instead of 2c but it could help or hurt. WOrth a shot!
I disagree with the comment about disguising the church as something else. We are suppose to be in the world but not of it.The more your church relates to that target audience the more people you will reach because of its demanding, modern, apparent trend to style for that age group.
SL