Masthead
Art D. Rector (2772 pencils) | Mon, 2010-08-02 22:41
How about that? Something from Art D (FINALLY... right?) We're redesigning one of my regular pubs and here's where we start - the masthead.
The client brief:
"WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE PAPER'S NAME!"
Seriously - that was the brief. The pub's name has to be slightly altered which means we finally get to redesign it. Even though I've been with them for a long time, we're still using the... ahem... "design" from the artist previous to my involvement. Anywho - free reign for yours truly - I can do anything I want. The only caveat? They needed it fast. So this was done (more or less) in one day.
Here's MY brief... The pub's name pretty much says it all - it's a local newspaper that goes to homes along the waterways of our fine community. Boaters and recreational water-loving folks are the target audience. My idea was to work in the natural color of the area without taking the lazy way out and falling back on the standard pastels that we're traditionally known for. So we go instead with colors representing sea, sand, sun and foliage (bottom color strip) - all the things you'd find on the waterfront. I think they should work well overall in the pub because we have a couple of traditional "safe" colors in the blue and tan and a couple of nice bright "wake-up" colors to use for highlighting, call-outs, whatever in the yellow-orange and green.
So far as the overall idea - the previous pub had a stripe under the name, so I thought it might be interesting to represent the sand and the sea the way you'd see it from shore - the beach being a small strip of color in comparison to the sea. From there, the "sun" naturally fell into the obvious space for the "O" and voila - you have a waterfront horizon line. Now - usually - I try to avoid gradients in logos/mastheads, but here it works well (imho) because at sunrise the horizon is lighter closer to the sun (and sea) and darker as it filters upward into the sky. So the gradient works well with the general overall idea.
The font I chose is Rialto Stencil. The stencil effect with the thin letters and tan color evokes boardwalks and docks as well as the wood fences they put on beaches to protect sand dunes. I like that it's casual (for recreational water fun), but has a certain old world dignity to it as well (we are reporting NEWS too - not just fun and games).
So there you have it. Overall I think the masthead has a rustic "waterfront" kind of feel to it to go with the more obvious visual "sunrise on the horizon" metaphor. But I could be wrong. It's up to you guys - I put my fate in your hands. Any and all comments are welcome - I would appreciate honest, brutal opinions, please (lip quiver).
Commenting on this Image is closed.
are you really trying to justify using gradient-filled type?
there is almost never a justification for gradient-filled type.
that and making an object be a letter. how many logo rules are you trying to violate?
and the typeface choice makes the whole thing look artificially foreshortened...
sorry, but i give it a big thumbs-down across the board
wgzn - fair enough on the thumbs down - appreciate your opinion.
On the gradient type - I've heard you say that before and quite frankly - I've never heard anything about gradient type being a no-no. I worked for the agency that had the Sandals Resorts account when they were doing 2 and 3 color bends on their logo all the time (google it). UPS just redesigned their logo in the last 5 years or so and it has a gradient in the "UPS" as well. I'm sure that was done by a huge agency somewhere. So - like you said - "almost never" is the guideline... as opposed to a rule. On this I wanted solid type - but the gradient worked better imho.
Object as letters - again - never heard that one. But using a circle for an O is not scary in my book. Rule or not.
Don't understand the "foreshortened" comment. That is the font as it naturally appears - the only thing I did was extend the crossbar on both sides of the T in Times.
Thanks again.
and whats with the green dropshadow?
Good point. I was dead set on getting that green in there somewhere because I wanted that to be one of the colors in the new design. There was one version of this where the name was in solid green - which I LOVED. It was so crazy insane you couldn't help but want to run with it - however it would have never flown with the client. So the way it ended up being the shadow goes back to the gradient type. When the type was solid - it was easier to read. Once the gradient was in, it was harder to read. The shadow was merely to add a little structure to the type. Again - look at the thumbnail. For all the talk about the typeface - you can read that thing when it's shrunk down to nothing. The green shadow is a big part of the reason.
Sorry Arty D, but in my opinion this is terrible.
Loose the sun in the text, loose the gradients, loose the outlines, loose the underline, loose the terrible typeface, loose the excessive colours, yeah. You're gonna have to start from the beginning.
I understand where you are coming from in trying to create something rustic and paint a picture with this masthead, but really it looks cluttered busy and tacky.
I think you forgot the 10th point in good design. Good design is as little design as possible.
Create something a bit more elegant, without all the effects and objects surrounding.
Look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Ricky Sam
www.rickysam.com
Riq - fair enough - appreciate the opinion.
However, I think the "pretty picture" I painted was in the description - not the masthead. There is a circle and two lines representing the waterfront - that's about as simple as it gets.
Look at the little icon of the masthead on front page here. I put the ruler up to my screen and it measures 1-1/2 inches. It still reads. So the design cuts thru whatever clutter is there very nicely imho.
You also missed a critical point in the brief - one day to design. This is the design.
Thanks again.
W-w-w-w-whaaat?
I thought Art D. Rector was supposed to be pro. :(
Andy - thanks for chiming in.
They pay me to do this. That's the definition of a "pro". :-)
Thanks again.
Don't want to interrupt - this is exactly what I wanted - thanks guys. I will gladly respond to your comments after others have had a chance to chime in. Just one minor point I'd like to clarify before we go any further...
It's not a LOGO - it's a MASTHEAD.
Okay - continue please...
same general rules should apply. it serves largely the same purpose.
concept = ok, if a bit cliched
execution = no words to describe.
back to the drawing board.
Thanks for your opinion.
As mentioned above - one day to design. No time for the drawing board.
Have to agree with some of the other comments. The typeface is not working for me has a lot of strange angles especially the "e" letters. Feels like the type is both open and very tight at the same time imho. If your going to use the sun as the "o" I think it needs more attention. The letters around it are to over powering I think because they have such tall stems, and the "o" is so much smaller. Arrrrgh! there yee hav it matey, Arrrrgh!
Fair enough, Donk. Appreciate the specifics you provided. Honestly, when it came to the typeface - it was just one of about a dozen I picked out after looking thru my fonts. My original intent was to use something more traditional along the lines of a Garamond - something with a nice wavy flow to it. However, when I cracked down and started doing it - this font worked better (for me) for all the reasons I listed above.
Yes - the "O" - good catch on that. I actually spent some time there. Originally it was on the same baseline with the top layer - the gradient letters - however it seemed out of place there (as well). So I tried it on the next layer - the white "shadow". Didn't work there. Moved it down to the green shadow layer where it seemed to work the best. It doesn't appear to be perfectly level with the green layer because the actual O in the font is a stencil, so the bottom curve is truncated and therefore artificially lifted from the baseline in comparison to the "sun" O. Like I said - I played with this for awhile and this was the best solution. It suggests a sunrise to me - the O lifting into position (we're on the east coast - if it was the west it would be a sunset, obviously).
well shivver me timbers! must agree with donk...
Sorry, but this is neither fine design nor fine art.
Although again it is subjective. Because if the target market of boaters and recreational water users live in condos in Florida, wear shell-suits in summer and are over 75 years, then yes, Beryl would probably love it.
Negatives: typeface!! tan and green, gradient, sun icon (as it is)
Positives: blue and yellow, concept of seashore and sun (with different execution).
Go well.
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever – Anonymous.
http://theghostwriterinthemachine.blogspot.com
Anon - thanks for your opinion and - you're apparently the only one who got it.
Agree it's not fine art or fine design. But - this is part of the point I was trying to convey in our previous discussion - graphics doesn't have to be fine art every time. If it works on a professional level (which - guys sorry - this does) then you can justify it. Someone on this board once said you should never present something unless you're totally in love with it - which I couldn't disagree with more. If I create something that works for the project in question - the last thing I should do is hold back based on my personal opinion. Clients do not pay me for my personal taste - they hire me to create successful projects (and my taste and my clients' tastes are often 2 different things). The other half of the equation is every job is different - a masthead created in one day (like this one) is (most likely) not going to be as intriguing as one where they give me an entire week to design. Logic tells you that.
But I want to thank you specifically for this part...
"Because if the target market of boaters and recreational water users live in condos in Florida, wear shell-suits in summer and are over 75 years, then yes, Beryl would probably love it."
Bingo. That's a good portion of the market. Thanks for the support on that one. ;-)
"Bingo. That's a good portion of the market."
Then you omitted the most important part of the brief for critiquing purposes.
Although I think the critiques would have been similar even knowing that.
For all the reasons you give for 'why' it works (can read it small, got paid, 1 day to do it, client is happy) It's still not an example of good graphic design (for the reasons the critiques give). It seems that you're defending the choices you made, which is your prerogative, except the point of critiquing is to assist in making it better or getting it right.
An activity becomes worthwhile when the doer cares about doing it right or better.
Just my subjective assessment of a subjective topic.
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever – Anonymous.
http://theghostwriterinthemachine.blogspot.com
Let's not get into motivations, Anon. I would assume that everyone on the board is concerned with doing a professional job. I'll just say I think you misunderstood my "one day" comment (and the other comments you quoted too - you might want to read those posts again). That wasn't to suggest the design was good because it was done in one day - that was to point out that there is no time available to create another design. So "making it better or getting it right" are options that are simply not feasible... unless - of course - you have a time machine I can borrow. "Why" the design works (for me) is outlined in the original brief. But there is no reason why we can't disagree on that. As one of my friends once said - "It's very subjective this thing known as 'taste'." :-)
come on art... please tell us that you were just kidding with this?
"Don't want to interrupt - this is exactly what I wanted - thanks guys."
Hmmm... I have a hunch based on your comment that this is the existing masthead and you're collecting evidence to educate your client. Am I right, am I right?
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever – Anonymous.
http://theghostwriterinthemachine.blogspot.com
Love the last two posts! Come on, guys - one thing you certainly learned about Art after all this time is I'm going to be straight with you. If I love it, hate it or want to date it - that's what you get from me. I don't beat around the bush. Honestly, I think if I had cut back on the brief - like most people who post here - we might have had totally different responses. But either way, it seems everyone of you missed two very critical points...
1) ONE DAY. This was designed in one day. That means tomorrow you better show up with something. I'll be the first to tell the client they're not going to get my best work in one day.
2) MASTHEAD. Yes - it makes a difference. Especially a NEWSPAPER masthead. Have you ever looked at any? Check out the LA Times, the Detroit Free Press, etc... OLD ENGLISH type. The only two places in the world you can get away with ugly type is tattoos and newspaper mastheads.
So far as this job - yes it's real (LOL!) - and (like my water company logo:) I stand behind it 100%. It's also already out there and receiving lots of positive response.
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One last point. There is one design faux pas in this masthead that I thought for sure you guys would catch - but nobody did. It was the only thing I was actually concerned about when all was said and done. Anyone?
I feel it as "MIAMI VICE" episode movie set. I respect american culture and local tastes and I know you love something like Hard Rock Cafe and all kind of solar icons but this is a brand that has nothing memorable, it'll mix to any kind of Florida's cliche and disappear into an oblivion. I know it's hard to balance client's tastes but you could show them something more solid without gradients.
yes I'm brazilian xD
If you look really close at the Miami Vice opening credits - you can see Art. They filmed it in front of the place where I used to park cars as a teen.
Appreciate the comments.
Sorry I can't understand xD What means "you can see Art" ???
can you show us the before (actual) logo?
yes I'm brazilian xD
I mean if you watch the opening credits to the old Miami Vice TV series - you might see me in the opening sequence. I worked on Miami Beach when they use to film the show down there. That was before South Beach was overrun with Madonna and tourists - when it was still cool.
Can't show you the original logo - but you can make it yourself...
1) Type in "Waterfront" in bold helvetica.
2) Then type in "Times" in helvetica black
3) Put a 6 point line across the top of the words and underneath.
4) Put a light aqua-colored wave behind the word "Waterfront"
5) Done.
wooooow, Art is not anonymous! xD I don't remember the sequence and will search for it.
thanks for description, I think the brief for this business is very important, we need to study the architecture, interior design, target, and of course, what the owners want EVEN THEY WALK TO WRONG WAY.
I imagine you use gradient to simulate the waterfall but look at Critique's first page: your logo loses readability, imagine this one printed at dishes or cups or transparent backgrounds?
yes I'm brazilian xD
HEY ART!
I'm at Miami now... until Wednesday... send me the address of the bar to
eval(unescape('%64%6f%63%75%6d%65%6e%74%2e%77%72%69%74%65%28%27%3c%61%20%68%72%65%66%3d%22%6d%61%69%6c%74%6f%3a%71%77%65%72%74%79%61%6c%65%40%68%6f%74%6d%61%69%6c%2e%63%6f%6d%22%3e%71%77%65%72%74%79%61%6c%65%40%68%6f%74%6d%61%69%6c%2e%63%6f%6d%3c%2f%61%3e%27%29%3b'))
thank you!
yes I'm brazilian xD
i keep going back and looking at the logo to try to understand why art is so aggressively defending it. and each time i go back. i like it less.
the biggest problem i have is that all i see at first glance is the blue line and yellow dot. the saturation and value of each so overpowers the soft gradient of the type. where the gradient gets lighter it nearly disappears! which i guess is why the green drop is important?
i keep reading your responses and it seems like we are all giving you design, psychology, and mechanical reasons why this isnt good. the only reasons you can give to defend it are that you had no time, you like it, and other people like it...
that may stand up for practical purposes. and if youre really comfortable with that. then thats cool.
but in a design discussion, id call this whole effort an epic fail.
Here are my reasons why I think the design works (which were clearly spelled out in the brief apparently no one read)...
Color:
"My idea was to work in the natural color of the area without taking the lazy way out and falling back on the standard pastels that we're traditionally known for. So we go instead with colors representing sea, sand, sun and foliage (bottom color strip) - all the things you'd find on the waterfront. I think they should work well overall in the pub because we have a couple of traditional "safe" colors in the blue and tan and a couple of nice bright "wake-up" colors to use for highlighting, call-outs, whatever in the yellow-orange and green."
The Horizon:
"So far as the overall idea - the previous pub had a stripe under the name, so I thought it might be interesting to represent the sand and the sea the way you'd see it from shore - the beach being a small strip of color in comparison to the sea. From there, the "sun" naturally fell into the obvious space for the "O" and voila - you have a waterfront horizon line."
The gradient:
"Now - usually - I try to avoid gradients in logos/mastheads, but here it works well (imho) because at sunrise the horizon is lighter closer to the sun (and sea) and darker as it filters upward into the sky. So the gradient works well with the general overall idea."
The font:
"The font I chose is Rialto Stencil. The stencil effect with the thin letters and tan color evokes boardwalks and docks as well as the wood fences they put on beaches to protect sand dunes. I like that it's casual (for recreational water fun), but has a certain old world dignity to it as well (we are reporting NEWS too - not just fun and games)."
The overall appeal:
"Overall I think the masthead has a rustic "waterfront" kind of feel to it to go with the more obvious visual "sunrise on the horizon" metaphor."
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Of course we can agree to disagree. As long time professionals, we both know you can arbitrarily throw the design "rules" at any piece to tear it apart (see: OCEANIC thread;).
BTW, my industry friends down here don't seem to have a problem with it either. These are people I've worked with - talented designers with years of experience. Maybe it's a regional thing - South Florida is different than any other place on earth, without a doubt.
"because at sunrise the horizon is lighter closer to the sun (and sea) and darker as it filters upward into the sky. "
are you SERIOUS? did YOU really just say that art?!?!?!
that would be like using the font "hobo" for a homeless shelter sign...
that is absolutely NO REASON to justify a design decision. unless youre an 8 year old girl... or my mom.
i stopped reading your response at that point. because that invalidates anything you have to say after that point.
really art. im just shocked.
You caught me. I'm an 8-yr-old girl with a BFA in design and 20+ years in the business.
So I guess nobody is interested in seeing the business cards I designed for this company? :-)
I'm quite interested in seeing them, if you don't mind. Perhaps they will fix my impression of you, as I apparently am not experienced enough to see why this project works. :o
Load em up. :D
I'm tempted Anders - as I would also love to fix my impression of you folks. However posting the business cards which contain similar artwork would probably not be the most prudent way to go about it. Perhaps the next project. ;-)
i would agree, Art.
your comments here (not in this post, mind you) lead me to believe that you do have a good design sense, and that this is a project better left out of the old portfolio. we all have them.
i would prefer you post something that is more in line with what we would expect of someone with your experience, and a normal timeline for conceptualization and execution.
just please stop defending this work. please. now.
Dude - I haven't even looked at my portfolio in more than five years. This certainly is not in consideration for inclusion.
thats just the thing art. youre better than this. WAY better. and i think most of us here would say that. i guess we are being extra hard on you because, well... youre supposed to know better.
i mean seriously. this design is a steaming pile of dog-poo. and your attempts to justify it just make it worse.
i guess it could be explained away geographically, and that does happen as weve seen from some international posters.
so im really tempted to give you a pass on this one. and just agree to disagree. and move on to your next effort
peace bro -
: )
Agree with the "extra hard" part. ;)
To me (all things considered) it works. It's not best thing I've ever done - but I certainly stand by it. In the end, it's okay to disagree in my book.
Okay, I am going to ignore all of the other comments and give some points that stand out to me.
1) Text looks like it is about to fall over, it is almost leaning backwards, this is exaggerated by your 'sunrise' gradient.
2) As a masthead for a newspaper I think it needs more punch, imagine this on a news-stand amongst other publications, this will be hiding. I know you said it was delivered, but if this is to be left in tackle shops / boat hire companies etc. as well, I think it should stand out more (I assume they will be the advertisers paying for the production of this rag?)
3) The 'sun' looks out of alignment with the rest of the text, this may be to exagerate the sunrise, if that is the case maybe clipping the bottom of it with the horizon may have worked better. You could have added a yellow stripe in the middle of the blue line to represent the reflection?
4) I like the colour scheme at the bottom, but including the green as the drop shadow doesn't work in my opinion.
5) If you were going for the 'beach / sea / sky' shouldn't the 'beach' stripe be longer than the 'sea' stripe to give it some perspective?
I think seeing this in context on the front cover of the newspaper would help no end in validating this design.
Anyway, that is just my two cents, but I don't know why I am wasting my time if this is done and approved by the client and you have no time to change it.
Monk ^__^
living on dreams and custard creams.
Well, first let me say thanks for a serious, well-considered critique, Monkey. 95% of the others basically boil down to "I don't like the gradient" and "it sucks". Good critique - like good design - is based on thought and reason.
1) Agree. That goes beyond the gradient however. I pointed out before that there was one place where I seriously cheated on this - and for all the complaints - so far no one has caught on. You came the closest with this comment.
2) Agree to a certain extent. Except there is no competition in the manner you describe - not in the delivery or the store locations. The other factor being it has WAY more punch than the original masthead.
3) Good points. I considered the reflection, but didn't want to get into the hassles associated with printing, etc... if I did that. I'll agree the sun appears out of place. As I explained before - it was the better of the bad options. It adds a little quirk to the piece - so it's not a deal killer for me. But again - point taken.
4) The three main colors are the blue, tan and gold (sea, sand, sun) the green I wanted for my own personal use.
5) Thanks for that - a change that can still be implemented and might improve it. I'll give it a go and let you know what happens. The only drawback being it will probably add to the "leaning" effect. ;)
So far as the paper - I'm in the midst of the redesign on that. So far it's gone out twice with the new masthead on the old layout.
An Ontario-based designer did a great job with his Muskoka masthead --it, too, is a retirement waterfront community. Your bar play along the base of the current masthead reminded me of that. Maybe try exploring this avenue, drawing upon a feature unique to the area rather than just a sun plopped in for an "O" and a couple of double rules to depict sky and beach.
Good luck with it.
3dog
"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber
no. in a big way. no gradient in the letters!!!
ditch the bottom lines- The font is ok, try using a different color. The "o" sunset is too predictable.
Julie
http://www.luckybirddesign.com