meeting with client went well? could use some help
well...
I had a meeting to discuss the Logos for a company named K and M models. the critique can be seen http://creativebits.org/km_models. I am supposed to meet the guy at 5pm at a popular local cafe in the middle of the city. I get there at 5 and call him, no response. i wait for 30 minutes and then leave. pretty pissed. I spent a few hours doing logo work and then at least an hour on the presentation. I printed out all 4 mocks and mounted them along with a grouping of all of them. it looked like this http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7529/presnetationbt8.jpg. so it looks like all this work down the drain. lesson learned, don't do any work unless you meet the person. head home, slam a beer and laugh at myself haha. I get a call at 6:30pm from the client saying hes real sorry and apologetic that he missed it. he double booked an appointment and forgot to change it. what a dick, coulda called. I finally meet with him and his business partner, both dressed very professional and such, and we go to a private section of the cafe and we talk more about what his company does, who his target market is, etc etc. he has a pre-idea of his business card mocked up in like mspaint. one side of his card has 4 full pictures of the model.. if printed each full body shot of the model would have to be the size of a nickel. this isn't the first time a client had unpractical and silly ideas of what he wants but i just tell this part to set the mood. the next 15 minutes i explain why his idea of the logo (yuck, not even going to describe it) isnt as efficient as the one i proposed based on the company image he wants. boy, Im sure thankful of all the sculpture/painting/drawing classes i took at college. it made it a lot easier to use technical terms to prove my point. This guy also has a sound company, wants me to do the logo for that, do some fliers for a promotion his sound company is doing and like 5 other things. All this work may sound great but this guy is medium sketchy? He doesn't seem to have a huge clue on marketing and stuff. This is one of his probably 3-4 companies. (he mentioned he also has a import/export business on top of the modeling agency and sound DJ business) I guess in my mind everyone who owned a business was savvy, smart and knew exactly what they wanted.
I need to come up with a business proposal. Like running the companies is his job, this is mine. bringing up money is professional and needed. but how in the hell do i go about it? what are some things you say to bring it up in a comfortable situation-- either in an email or in person? i know this is a loaded question but any advice is greatly appreciated. I don't have a business license, should i even be doing freelance design work? I kinda want to get something in writing so i don't get screwed but don't want to goto jail :D I just want to do some freelance stuff on the side while i finish up my portfolio and in between applying for jobs. I have a part time job that i work 30 hours a week but need some extra money to pay the bills. should i drop this guy and forget about it and the time i worked and just screw it?
I have no idea how much money this guy plans on spending on this. his dj company is going to be promoting Friday nights at this upscale urban night club. he wants fliers. It all depends on how much he wants to spend. This is a flier for thursday nights that someone else is doing
http://www.venurochester.com/thurln.jpg . I could do something like that in 30 minutes or i could spend half a day or even all day doing a really good one. I dont want to spend all day when he wants to pay the 30 minute one. I got out of school a bit ago and this is my first experience with a client. I think i just need to tell him exactly what i just typed. it helped to get it out. just not sure what exactly to do. If you have any advice, i could use it.
-Brian
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Make a contract. Stick to
Make a contract. Stick to it. Search cb for "contract" as there are plenty of threads about this topic.
This guy is trying to snow you with so much work that you'll forget to ask to get paid and so far it's working. Stop doing ANY work for him till he signs a contract with you and pays you a deposit for the work you've done and for part of what you will do. Get 1/3 or 1/2 up front as a matter of course.
Your concern is not how the client runs his business but about running yours. Make sure you focus on that. Figure out the going rate for logos/design in your area, pick an hourly rate and give him an estimate. Your bill remains an estimate till the job's done. Don't fall into the trap of agreeing to a total price and then having the client nickel and dime you into poverty. Charge for your time as you are essentially providing a service.
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Powerpoint is not a design application
nate's right, you're working
nate's right, you're working without a net.
a contract is an absolute minimum. and your contract needs to spell out exactly what they get for the estimate. if that means your estimate is based on the fact that they get 3 comps and 3 rounds of edits on the comp they choose, then you have to spell that out specifically and tell them what it costs if they want more than that (often an hourly cost above the estimate). basically you need to set client expectations by spelling out the scope of work ahead of time. that lets you and the client know exactly what they're getting and what they're paying for.
and get the deposit. especially with a guy like it sounds like you're dealing with (someone with 20 irons in the fire hoping one will get hot). sounds like exactly the kind of person it's tough to get payment from. no true established business, just a bunch of "opportunities' he's working on. a deposit ensures you get paid at least something for your time.
along w/the deposit, if it's a big job, have designated payment points along the way as you accomplish portions of the project for him. that way, if he's not forthcoming with payment, you can stop work until he catches up.
i would suggest working on each of his projects as a separate deal, not one big lump project. that keeps him from holding payment for finished work because there is other unfinished work, which makes you work even longer at risk.
and remember two things. unless you explicitly turn over copyright to him (i.e., state it in a signed contract), you still own the copyright to everything you do, even after he's paid you. never give him your source files unless he pays extra for those rights. and never give him a finished product (print files) until he's paid you.
since you're uncomfortable with him (and it sounds like i would be, too), if you give him files electronically for proofing, make sure they're low-resolution bitmaps (in the case of a logo, since there's no such thing as low-res vector files) or low-res PDFs for documents with images in them. that makes it difficult for him to just take your final proofs and run with them w/o paying, since they'll print poorly.
Agreed on the copyright
Agreed on the copyright issue.
Oh, and you can slap a huge watermark on your proof so it will be useless to print (or cost him an arm and a leg to have another designer retouch your watermark off the bitmapped gif image! ha ha)
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Powerpoint is not a design application