Rethinking webdesign design apps
Warning, below is a bug that has bugged me for two years :o
Don't get me wrong, I like to do work in design and get into the nitty gritty. But after you spend hours on hours trying to get something to work that you just cant find out why it wont and have to result to new code or a total new redesign it kina irkes you.
This is an old idea I still feel has never been created before, and I cant seem to get it by developers at all :( I mean I try and try ..
http://www.aprilcolo.com/oh/chimp/spots/csstweek/
The idea was a CSS tweak tool, in that it is fast and shows you all control points like padding and margin as well.
Apps like Dreamweaver and Golive are kings among WYSIWYG but I myself cant understand why they are.
OSX has a bunch of nifty template apps as well but they dont cut the mustard when it comes to designing or simply tweaking something like background images or the layout yourself.
The closeest I have seen that would fit perfectly in this are
Comic Life http://plasq.com/comiclife/
It is so smooth and fast it would be perfect for this idea.
Rapid Weaver http://www.realmacsoftware.com/
It is a great house of templates, but that is where it ends, you can only change content and choose pre-made templates
Sandvox http://www.karelia.com/
Looks like it is the same as Rapidweaver and wants them out of the picture :P No clue really since I cant test it yet.
Omni Graffle and Pages http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnigraffle/
They are PERFECT for the idea, they work as great page layout apps, but both suck as html export, and would still need the same extra stuff
Dreamweaver, Golive, and Freeway, Blah dont want to start on those, tried em all for more than two weeks, they work but are slow, picky and bloated, To me :D
A running theme you might see here if your on osx and have tried these apps, is that the control handles are really fast and the manipulation of the apps tools is very fast,
Other than my rant, ;) what should a webdesign app have in it to make a designer not have to hit the code so hard ?
Notes: CSSEdit is a great tool, and would be a choice tool but it is still code and not truly grab and change.
- tripdragon's blog
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Isn't a large part of web
Isn't a large part of web design about understanding the underlying technologies, because that's the medium we are working with here. People who create great websites (& not just draw pretty pictures) have that special combination of creative vision, technical understanding & an understanding of how users interact with a screen based environment.
Take a good print designer for example, they don't just use photophop & Quark (or whatever) & thats their job done. If they are good, they truly understand the materials they are working with - how inks interact with certain papers to achieve a particular effect etc.
Complex applications like Dreamweaver have a tendency to hide what's going on in the background & remove the designer from truly understanding this medium. I would argue that my web design skills improved no end when I finally left Dreamweaver & just used a combination of BBEdit & Transmit.
So a CSS design tool eh? Perhaps good for a quick mock up, but aren't they always going to suffer from the same type of problems? Forcing you to work in a particular way & making you constantly battle with what what you want to achieve & how the application does things. I wish I just taken things more slowly & gone the plain text editor route from the start...
As a little extra...
To avoid "A total new redesign":
A. Create your website for a standards compliant browser.
B. Regularly check the site across other standards compliant browsers.
C. Test against i.e. last.
D. If there are problems with i.e. then "special case" an extra style sheet specifically for i.e. with code to fix the problems.
This simple methodology has relieved many frustrations I had with web-design & means you don't have to resort to a total re-design or ugly hacks in your main style sheet.
Also, having an effective bug checking methodology is vital i.e. Pair down code to the minimum for a bug to be apparent, so you REALLY understand whats going on then:
"trying to get something to work that you just cant find out why it wont "
Is never an issue. Otherwise when you re-do things, its all hit and miss & you can't make informed decisions...
Tumult Hyperedit
Have you looked at this app:
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/12394
It can parse/display php/html as you type.
Will
I like the idea of that
I like the idea of that app...
Taco does that as well. I
Taco does that as well. I love Taco, it is super fast, but it is stiill code pokeing. No direct accesses to the design, just code hoping.
Oh well, it looks as though I know why now that this app cant be created or wont be created, Uh,, NM, back to sleep..
Style Master
Westciv's Style Master gives you your choice of using panes that are code-only, layout only or both. You just enter the values for each property in the appropriate slide-out palettes. I find the layout panes a bit slow, though and use it ocassionally. It's still very easy to use and is a great tool for beginners and advanced CSS designers.
Why WYSIWYG Hasn't Worked
Layout oriented web editors like Dreamweaver, Frontpage, or Pages will never help the non-web-savvy person design a good website. Why? Because HTML isn't a layout language like PDF. It's a logical markup language.
To make a web editor that an average user can produce good, compliant XHTML and CSS with, you need to drop the page layout paradigm and replace it with a content-oriented and structure-oriented paradigm. That means:
1. Getting the user first to think about content and the semantic relationship of the page components. A new type of interface will probably be needed to take care of this.
2. Getting the user to tell the program, in logical terms, how the page items should flow. The interface should let someone do this without requiring knowledge of HTML's limitations.
3. Giving the user comfortable style controls and tools to apply once the above steps have been completed.
So far, no program has been up to this challenge.
PS: If this website is going to insist on logging in for comments, it should really redirect you back to the article you were reading after you log in. It's poor interface design to kick you out of the article you were trying to comment on.
Alright. Then what is
Alright. Then what is holding people back from designing an app that focuses on the two different splits ?
Why continue to build apps that focus on one or the other ? Is no one up to the hard work that it will take to try a proper method of webdesign apps ?
My biggest beef with this is, you expect somjeone to learn everything in the code editing manor. When someone simply just wants to post a site that follows standards and such. sometimes ya just dont have enough time to learn it all, after you have spent time learning others apps like photoshop, affter effects, 3d design textureing uv unwrapping, shading, lightin g, compositeing .......
Eh, anyway I just cant take anymore comper stuff today , :D