Question about graphic quality in .pdf files

Submitted by cmac on Thu, 2007-12-06 22:16.

Member's Forum

Hey there,

I'm new to creativebits, so be gentle.

I have been designing graphics with Photoshop for years....but mostly for the web, so I don't have much experience in preparing .psd files for export as high quality .pdf files for print.

Anyway, I was wondering if someone could go to http://www.crestfallen.ca/ and download this designer's resume and explain to me what settings he used to keep all text and his logo at the top right (very nice I might add) crystal clear at 6400% magnification. It's driving me crazy! I only use high ppi settings when I design graphics for the web, but nothing of this quality. When I save the the .psd file as a .pdf it looks fine at 100% magnification but as I zoom in, it gets worse and worse lol. I want to make it so that the graphics never lose quality at any magnification in Acrobat Reader.

Thanks!

You are working with bitmapped images. . .

Submitted by ireid on Fri, 2007-12-07 02:09.

He sounds like he's working with vectors. (MUCH better)

See this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_image

"Vector art is key for printing. Since the art is made from a series of mathematical curves it will print very crisp even when resized."

You need to start working in Illustrator my friend. :)

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

vector graphics / raster graphics

Submitted by BigPicture on Fri, 2007-12-07 04:37.

Hi,
This is a *huge* factor that you learn about if you are doing any kind of graphic design work.

Photos are raster graphics. They are X # of pixels by X # of pixels. Each pixel has a hue, saturation and brightness. Photoshop primarily works with these types of images and will convert any graphic into a raster graphic for output. It's primary function is to alter the characteristics of each of those pixels, using selections, filters, etc. When you zoom in beyond 100%, you see each one of the file's pixels get represented on your monitor by more than one screen pixel.

Vector graphics, on the other hand are mathematical equations representing the existence of a line, an edge, a color, a gradient etc. As you zoom in beyond 100%, the edge will not get jagged because there are no file pixels, only those your screen uses to represent the equation's characteristics (curve, color, etc.) All good logos are vector graphics. Designing these type of graphics is the realm of Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator also makes text type in vector graphics.

[Adobe InDesign is a page layout program that "places" raster graphics created in photoshop, and vector graphics created in illustrator (and some other types of files) onto a document page. It then allows you to add shapes and text in vector format and export a .pdf. It's a very good program for making anything-beyond just photos-that you are going to print. Some designers use Illustrator for page layout, but InDesign was created especially for this job and is a truely exceptional program for it.]

Adobe Acrobat is a .pdf creation and display program that works for both screen and print because on screen it represents all vector graphics as true vectors, allowing you to zoom in on them without loosing quality. When you send the same document to print, the printer will represnt those vector and raster images as dots on a page...at whatever density the graphics on the page are set at. (Jpegs only show raster graphics. They are a photo compression file, and not as suitable as .pdfs for printing anything other than photos, though .tiffs are better. Jpegs loose quality through compression but are relatively small files are really best just for photos on screen.)

The difference between raster and vector graphics is essential to understand for making the most appropriate files for screen and/or print.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_graphics

Hopefully some usefull info...
All the best,
Jason

I'm a print designer who

Submitted by natobasso on Fri, 2007-12-07 05:12.

I'm a print designer who moved to web 3 years ago full time and I can tell you starting in illustrator is essential, then I go to photoshop to take advantage of the slicing options.

For print, illustrator is just as key. I recommend using InDesign to create your layouts for pdf, not photoshop, and place your illustrator images into ID. Export pdf/x-1a files for print and you have the smallest, best most error free files possible.

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Powerpoint is not a design application

Anyway, I was wondering if

Submitted by natobasso on Fri, 2007-12-07 05:19.

Anyway, I was wondering if someone could go to http://www.crestfallen.ca/

I noticed this site doesn't quite work in firefox! The title text gets covered by the horizontal rule...Just thought I'd nitpick. :)

And he's proficient in software such as Mortal Kombat. Interesting! :) I'm sorry, I'm being catty now. Not good.

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Powerpoint is not a design application

And he's proficient in software such as Mortal Kombat

Submitted by cmac on Fri, 2007-12-07 07:52.

haha Yeah I got a kick out of that too. He must be pretty amazing at the game to put it on his resume lol.

I've had Illustrator CS3 installed on my comp for a while now, but never really knew (or cared) how powerful it really was. I have to say, in terms of designing graphics, Illustrator is FAR superior to Photoshop. PS, however, is great for editing photos and graphics and creating designs for the web and Flash work (since you really don't need anything better than raster graphics for the web)...so from now on I will only use PS for those tasks.

I love how I don't have to worry about resolution settings and whatnot since everything is scalable in AI, no matter what the size. Also, the ability to move separate objects on the same layer without affecting other objects is amazing. I can't believe I've been farting around with PS for identity design this long lol. Illustrator files are also perfect for import into Swift 3D (a 3d vector program for Flash I have been using a lot lately). It shouldn't take me long to get the hang of AI either...it really isn't that different from PS, as far as I can tell. I am so pissed at myself for not looking into Illustrator's features years ago lol.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your help and the much-needed eye-opener on the difference between raster and vector graphics lol.

Um, you can use illustrator

Submitted by natobasso on Fri, 2007-12-07 14:14.

Um, you can use illustrator graphics in Flash too! In fact, they are better (lower memory usage) than using raster graphics. That's what Flash was made for and it's main benefit, my friend: Vector graphics.

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Powerpoint is not a design application

joke

Submitted by r0sss on Sat, 2007-12-08 01:27.

it's a joke

adobe distiller is the right

Submitted by FrostByte on Fri, 2007-12-07 09:45.

adobe distiller is the right way to go, not exporting to pdf/x from adobe programs. distiller is made for making correct printfiles. older RIP machines tend to give errors with exported pdf-s, especially when transparencies or gradients are used.

I don;t seem to have problems

Submitted by ireid on Fri, 2007-12-07 10:20.

When I export. BUT I do flatten complex effects in Illustrator before I save the PDF.

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

good for you :) btw, it is

Submitted by FrostByte on Fri, 2007-12-07 12:28.

good for you :)

btw, it is a good idea to flatten illustrator files when using them in InDesign, Illustrator does a much better flattening job.

Flattening

Submitted by natobasso on Fri, 2007-12-07 14:14.

http://indesignsecrets.com/creating-pdf-export-or-use-distiller.php

The good news is that InDesign CS2 no longer embeds CID-keyed fonts by default, so its directly-exported files are smaller and more compatible with older RIPs.

and

But another reason your printer may resist is just fear of the unknown. Many printers find it easier to stick with the tried-and-true Distiller method than experiment with something new. (Some of them also still refuse to accept TrueType fonts!) So if you can’t get your printer to try your directly-exported file, you should at least use Distiller faster by choosing the Adobe PDF printer. To use this, you need a copy of Acrobat 6, 7, or (in a couple months) 8 Professional.

Of course there's controversy over these and other statements the blogger makes, but I'm a firm believer in pdf/x1-a format.

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Powerpoint is not a design application

Disagree

Submitted by natobasso on Fri, 2007-12-07 14:13.

I completely disagree. I've exported directly from InDesign for 4 years now without any issue. Printers love pdf/x1-a files. Ask yours. I'll bet they'll say the same.

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Powerpoint is not a design application

Exporting PDFs

Submitted by shoaf on Fri, 2007-12-07 14:57.

I recently had a conversation with a prepress tech at a printer where we are having a job done as I type this. They mandate using Distiller for their stuff, and he explained why: 99% of the time an exported PDF (at least from InD) will work. But it's their way of solving the issues in most of the last 1%. It puts less potential speed bumps in the way when things are on deadline. (This particular printer does a lot of weekly, bi-weekly, and monthly publications.)

For most other printers I deal with, I just give them the InD file with all the fonts and links... never heard a complaint, and never got any nasty surprises at proof time or delivery.

To be honest

Submitted by ireid on Fri, 2007-12-07 15:06.

When we FINALLY bought Acrobat 8. Distiller was kinda BURIED deep in the menus. I was VERY disappointed. I thought that it was A.) Integrated better into Acrobat (it hasn't) and B.) it was able to work on PDFs, (It doesn't. just eps files which are big and unwieldy in our environment) SO when we export to a PDF X/1a we run it through Acrobat's Preflight and it really does a good job of making sure the file is 100% ready for printing. It usually is.

HOWEVER that wouldn't stop SOME printers (we know) from OPENING up the files we send in Illustrator and RE SAVING it as an eps THEN distilling it again. . . we have NO control over that. Besides the ONLY printer I know who does that is using Distiller like 2.5 or something! so it REALLY doesn't matter. Some even rasterize the WHOLE thing in Photoshop and then save as tiffs. Go figure.

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

how to use distiller?

Submitted by wgeddes on Wed, 2007-12-12 15:58.

how do you use distiller with indesign files? i thought distiller could only do EPS files, so any time i worked with .ai i had to save it out as .eps and then distill it, and i don't see a way to do it from indesign.

You can either save out an

Submitted by natobasso on Wed, 2007-12-12 16:06.

You can either save out an eps or a ps (postscript file) from InDesign and rip through Distiller.

I still say just export a pdf/x1-a directly from InDesign. I've never had any problems with this and I've produced HUNDREDS of files this way without any print errors. And the printer was being honest with me. :)

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Powerpoint is not a design application

Beating the proverbial dead horse here

Submitted by KellyR on Fri, 2007-12-07 19:00.

I know... it's already been determined, but I'm going to agree with the following suggestions:

• For crystal clear graphics when zoomed in even up to 1667%, you're looking at the use of vector images. Photoshop PDFs are limited to the dpi in which you first created the Photoshop document, so if you zoom in beyond the 100% viewable size, you're going to start to see pixelation.

• Only use Photoshop PDFs if you're sure you're not going to be needing to enlarge the PDF in the future.

• I highly recommend exporting print-quality PDFs from InDesign. Take care of all your page layouts in InDesign - limit raster images in your page layouts to photos or photo-effects that you're not going to want to enlarge in the future. Use vector images for logos, etc, and try as much as possible to utilze InDesign for all your text. Export at the x-1a setting, as it acts like a mini pre-flight tool and catches most errors before it can be fully exported as a PDF.

• In regards to using distiller, it probably is the most fail-safe method to creating PDFs, but coming from a place that also deals with daily, weekly and monthly print publications, we've found that X-1a PDFs do the job just fine.