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ireid's picture
1283 pencils

Should Photoshop Retouching be Banned . . .

I was surfing around youtube for Photoshop tutorials and I came upon this video

So. . . SHOULD retouching be banned?
Discuss. :)

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

Commenting on this Forum topic is closed.

natobasso's picture
3951 pencils

No. Do you want to see models, products, and advertisements as they REALLY are, imperfections and all? I didn't think so. :)

----
Natobasso
dirtandrust.com
"Powerpoint is not a design application"

Leaky Penny's picture
2612 pencils

the damn filters!

Leaky Penny
www.leakypenny.com

“If you do what you love to do, then you won’t do it in an average way.”
~ Angela Bassett

Leaky Penny
Check out what I've been up to lately!
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I'm going to print it out and eat it.

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TinyPilot's picture
1 pencil

Not much we can do about it other than educate young people and hope it could penetrate their mind in some way, so they don't try and achieve the impossible..

Btw this YouTube video is also interesting in terms of reality vs Photoshop :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcFlxSlOKNI

And the other way around :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-kZSpdv9Pk

Ivan's picture

I think banning would be too harsh, but certainly a requirement to say this image has been digitally enhanced is needed in areas where the image represents information rather than just decoration or entertainment. For example I don't give a damn whether a pop star is really the way he is on a photo, but when magazines retouch cover photos of real events I do feel cheated.

onegirlcreative's picture
1090 pencils

A disclaimer, if you will. Definitely!

--------
"I am not sick. I am broken. But I am happy as long as I can paint." ~ Frida Kahlo

www.onegirlcreative.com

StevenW721's picture
4 pencils

My wife had a class that discussed this at some point, they got to the subject of retouching news photos and whether or not that should be banned. I think retouching magazine covers and portraits are fine, almost even expected at this point. But if someone modifies an image that's being used with a news article there should be some restrictions. An image says a thousand words and editing that image can change those words.

Take this for example - http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/in-an-iranian-image-a-missile-too-many/

KellyR's picture
525 pencils

I agree with Ivan. If a photo is being used to sell a product, it should probably be noted in the fine print somewhere if it's been altered.

That said, people in this world would do better by far if they would simply educate themselves and their offspring on what's real and what's not instead of demanding Big Brother come in and ban this and restrict that.

Another good example of a way to distort the human idea of health: Look at body building competitions. Some in the industry would have viewers believe that the corded, bulging muscles and popping veins are the epitome of perfect health and physique. In reality, during the actual competition, these body builders are severely dehydrated (and in my humble opinion, being severely dehydrated ain't healthy). They take this measure in order to ensure high definition in their musculature for the competition. A look that is achieved without a digital camera or photoshop expert anywhere nearby.

Anywho... I think even when you look through historic ads of people, especially when most advertising was accomplished through illustration, you didn't see the illustrators drawing "average" looking people unless it was to suit the purpose of the product being sold. Take a look at some of those illustrations from the 50's and 60's - the women had pinched waists, perky chests and the men all had strong physiques and chiseled features. I wonder if people viewing the ads back then complained that the illustrators needed to draw more realistic people because it was warping their idea of what people are supposed to look like.

Tice's picture
44 pencils

Haven't seen that video before. In this case it's just a bit sunspots and shape action. There's much more. The Dove video shows more of that.

Actually I think retouching is OK. Advertising is more like a dream and less like reality. Like we do it in our own mind with the past - everything gets a little bit nicer, don't it? But it is important to be aware that it is a dream.

And for me - I've done that retouching a lot, even on party photos i.e. when somebody has sweatpatches (btw. only seen in the flashlight of the camera).

But, yeah don't try to catch up with this images. ; )

ireid's picture
1283 pencils

Lets not even talk about tops that suddenly become 'see thru' once a strong flash or spotlight gets thrown on it! Trying to fix THAT is a nightmare!

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

gwells's picture
1707 pencils

wait? you want to fix that?

ireid's picture
1283 pencils

Nuff said.

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

gwells's picture
1707 pencils

evil clients!

steveballmer's picture
652 pencils

With Photoshop, yes!
Photoshop is overhyped, artsy-community, bloated, me-too software with an unstable codebase and hefty hardware requirements! Stuff like this should be banned in general!

http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com

http://stevefakeballmer.wordpress.com
I am not Steve Ballmer pretending not to be me!

JimD's picture
2626 pencils

People like you should be banned in general! :-p

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Visit The Graphic Mac for graphics and Mac OS tips, reviews, tutorials and discussion.

luminousnerd.com's picture
148 pencils

I never understood this issue. The retouching is not even a concern at all if you ask me. ALL printed material has gone through some sort of processing in Photoshop. If people don't realize that, then they aren't very bright at all.

Besides, the difference isn't THAT astounding. They may touch up blemishes and such, but there are people with perfectly smooth faces. It's not unrealistic at all.

The real problem here is absolutely positively NOT Photoshop retouching, but the fact that most of these models really ARE freakishly skinny, and to be a successful model you pretty much have to be that way.

Thanks,
Jt Hollister
www.whywaitwebs.com

"Your time is limited, don't waste it living someone else's life."
-Steve Jobs

gwells's picture
1707 pencils

JT, i don't think you've seen some of the demonstrations i've seen on how much actual retouching is done that makes models, actresses, etc, skinnier, removes cellulite, reshapes their faces, etc. there's a whole lot more of that going on that you realize, based on your post. it's very sophisticated work.

luminousnerd.com's picture
148 pencils

You may very well be right. I don't know a lot from the subject. But based on this video, and what I've seen in the past, when you compare the real model and the magazine model, there's not a huge difference. They get rid of all the "imperfections" and maybe skinny them up a bit, just all around minor tweaks here and there. True, the end model looks creepily perfect as a result but my real point is this:

These models really ARE scary thin, and really are extremely unhealthy in order to look as disgusting as they do (thereby impressing all the seriously screwed up guys who actually go for that) and I think that's a much, MUCH bigger problem than retouching photos. The retouching thing is just one more terd on the shitpile.

Thanks,
Jt Hollister
www.whywaitwebs.com

"Your time is limited, don't waste it living someone else's life."
-Steve Jobs

3dogmama's picture
1990 pencils

My eldest son (grade 1) brought home his school photo proofs the other day. On the day that the shots were taken, his upper lip had had a slight blemish on it due to being chapped. I noticed that they offered retouching for a set fee so I asked him if he'd like that mark removed.

His answer to me was simple and bang on the money:
"It's only a small mark, Mommy, and if you change it, it won't be real. It won't be me."

If this is the outlook for future generations then perhaps there's hope for keeping things real.

"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
— Frank Zappa

"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber

ireid's picture
1283 pencils

How old is he? :)

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

3dogmama's picture
1990 pencils

He's only six years old. It's kind of a wake up call that wisdom is not only measured by years and experience. ;)

"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
— Frank Zappa

"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber

gwells's picture
1707 pencils

too young to be jaded!

3dogmama's picture
1990 pencils

He's not jaded, he's just a little boy with a mind that reasons for itself. Better than being a sheep.

"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
— Frank Zappa

"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber

gwells's picture
1707 pencils

you misunderstand, i said he's *NOT* jaded.

3dogmama's picture
1990 pencils

And hopefully he never is.

"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
— Frank Zappa

"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber

the_vagrant's picture
1 pencil

no of course it shouldnt be. i mean some people are making a living out of it. most celebrities are not nearly as perfect as they pretend to be. and people reading magazines expect them to be perfect. personally i dont read magazines so i dont care what celebrities look like and if they are not as perfect as they look on the pictures. if you can sell something cheap for a lot of money-hell yeah! no banhammer!

pokie's picture
1217 pencils

No. I retouch my own pictures for freaks sake.

i8amooseonce's picture
7 pencils

Everyone can cry me a river. You can't honestly want to BAN someone's idea of perfection. The Greeks and Romans sculpted what they thought were the ideal human form as an expression of beauty and nothing catastrophic came of it. Using photoshop for this is no different. If people value an airbrushed blemish-free existence, I say let them. All this ridiculous talk about "should we prevent this?" is just another filler subject created to keep bored soccer moms tuned in and watching until there's another school shooting or dead celebrity to talk about.

Honestly, it's just another example of how uniformly insecure our society is becoming. Should we regulate this? or should we ban that? Instead of creating a witch hunt out of every little issue why don't we just let it be and stop caring about what most people do with their lives?

Nathan Hart Allen
SD Creative Director
cell: 479.236.7398
www.somethingdesigned.com
"God helps them that help themselves." -- Benjamin Franklin

ireid's picture
1283 pencils

"The Greeks and Romans sculpted what they thought were the ideal human form as an expression of beauty and nothing catastrophic came of it. Using photoshop for this is no different."

:P

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

i8amooseonce's picture
7 pencils

where are they indeed?

Deeply embedded in your very own culture, my friend... philosophy, art, politics, architecture... the very language you speak and write comes from those people... i think you know this. :-)

Nathan Hart Allen
SD Creative Director
cell: 479.236.7398
www.somethingdesigned.com
"God helps them that help themselves." -- Benjamin Franklin

ireid's picture
1283 pencils

Something called the Dark ages and the renaissance. . . :P

And LETS not forget WHERE THOSE came from. . . the MIddle East. ;)

"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda

pokie's picture
1217 pencils

Well said sir... well, except the whole soccer mom thing. ;)

i8amooseonce's picture
7 pencils

hah thanks... I know that comment was a little rough... I'll just retouch it later. ;-)

Nathan Hart Allen
SD Creative Director
cell: 479.236.7398
www.somethingdesigned.com
"God helps them that help themselves." -- Benjamin Franklin

natobasso's picture
3951 pencils

I don't see retouching as wrong unless it's an event that's meant to be un colored by human hands (or a computer's 1's and 0's).

The Greeks and Romans helped us refine english to what it is today, so I see some "retouching" there too.

Back in the 70s and 80s they used "gauze"/soft focus lenses to hide imperfections, so it's not an altogether new thing; I for one am glad they did, especially during my acne-ridden teenaged years. :)

----
Natobasso
dirtandrust.com
"Powerpoint is not a design application"

walks_in2_trees's picture
252 pencils

just like everythings else, as soon as you take something to an extreme, that's when it becomes a bad thing. Since there is no way to enforce such a ban it's pointless to argue about it.

almost every image IS retouched in some way, I do it all the time, sometimes even creating new images from several to make a new one that fits whatever I'm working on.

marketing IS fantasy, and there's no getting around it.

"...and mamma cried: Watch out where the huskies go, don't you eat that yellow snow" - Frank Zappa

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