The PDF Position
ireid (1298 points) | Tue, 2008-07-15 12:03Hi
I'm having a little issue with a print broker over the use of PDF's. Before I get into the problem itself I need to give a little background. One of our bigger clients prefers to shuttle final artwork through a print broker. We never have prior knowledge of the client's plan until a 'problem' crops up and USUALLY it crops up with THIS particular print broker. Whenever I see the calling id on my phone I cringe because I KNOW pain is going to follow!
Basically this particular print broker complains EVERY TIME we send PDF's, claiming that no one uses it and that printers don't like it. NOW I KNOW I have sent MANY a PDF X to various media houses as WELL as a few printers and no one has ever complained, so I don't know what his story is!
I have a feeling that he's looking to cut costs by using smaller printers who are 'not high up the technology tree' as some of the others we use, if that's the case what do I do? I have briefed my department to use PDF's and have the entire flight check work flow revolving around PDF's do I suddenly say: "Guys PDFs are good for SOME people but not all." and "Load onto CD PDF's AND Illustrator files"? I see confusion reigning supreme.
What should be my response to this latest situation? I Have already had an argument with him about it and told him that unless he TELLS me what the printer's requirements are before hand I will continue to load PDF's as usual. Is this a correct response?
Thanks
"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda
i would suggest that you ask your client to tell his print brokers that PDF printing is a requirement up front. it's not an unreasonable request, especially if he's not going to involve you in the printer selection process.
Perhaps you can implement a policy where PDF delivery is standard and all other collect for output requests carry a surcharge.
It's not that you won't submit illustrator or quark files, its simply that the QC procedure requires more effort and you must pass those extra charges to the customer.
I have recently seen a print shop using an older RIP that does not know what to do with PDFX1A files, so the request is not without some validity. However, as you suspect, thats because the prepress budget is being neglected and the printer has always reserved 'push-back' privileges for any submitted files.
Surcharges may save you some headaches and possibly increase revenue as well.
Inform your bosses that costs are going to go up as a result of using this print broker. Maybe this will influence them enough to schedule a sit down meeting with the broker where you can come to the agreement that the PDF workflow is the way to go so you don't have to slow down production to provide collected files.
Your broker is using cheap printers so he can take as much of the profit as he can. These printers are folks he's lowballed and probably have an antiquated workflow process, as you said.
The broker is supposed to work FOR you not against you. The money will talk in this situation.
----
Powerpoint is not a design application
----
The Salon Design Tech
But the sticky thing is: WE'RE not paying him, the client is, so the complication comes in where the client doesn't understand why they have to pay more money to us (the agency) to give the broker the files he needs. This is where it gets complex, do you pass the bill onto the client and then let HIM sort it out with the broker?
"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda
If you are going to add a surcharge for providing files other than PDF, then you need to explain that to your client before you do it, and I personally wouldn't do it on this job. I would wait until you had a chance to explain this at the outset of a job, not at the end.
You could tell your staff that this broker is outdated and they want illustrator files, then include them with fonts outlined, and all will be good.
My advice is to take the quality control route. Explain to your client that the reason you use pdf, and indeed the reason that a good portion of the industry does, is because it eliminates a lot of the issues that can pop up in prepress and ruin a job. I would tell them that if you are going to provide anything other than your standard workflow output (PDF), then the print broker is going to have to be responsible for any errors and therefore any costs related to reprinting. In other words, you stand behind pdf, but you can't stand behind illustrator files because of font issues and the fact that they have the ability to be changed.
I do think you are absolutely correct in demanding to know the printers requirements before doing anything, because that is a matter of saving your valuable time. I wouldn't lift a finger unless I knew what they wanted.
Hard nose approach.
When print broker calls you, inform him/her that they need to go through the client (who not only has to receive the call from the broker, but then needs to call your shop and approve file format change and any extra charges you may apply) because your shop is not allowed to make changes without client approval.
When print broker becomes as much a pain in the ass to your client as they have been to you, I believe you'll see some changes.
It's both ballsy and politic. Unless your shop is willing to protect its own workflow, you haven't much choice. Ultimately, it comes down to choosing to how you do your work or allowing your clients will dictate it to you.
Either choice is valid really.
That IS sticky. I'd say inform whomever is paying the broker what the deal is, but that would be going around the print broker's back...
----
Powerpoint is not a design application
----
The Salon Design Tech
well, if the client hires the print broker and you, as a vendor, are having issues with the print broker, i don't see it as going behind the print broker's back. both ireid and the print broker are vendors of the client, thus the client would be the arbiter, because they're paying both. and as a vendor, i would put the onus on the client to make a decision, if only because they're the ones who are going to pay for it (literally and figuratively) in the end.
You bet, but do you risk losing the work by pissing off the print broker?
----
Powerpoint is not a design application
----
The Salon Design Tech
i guess so. but no more than the print broker potentially loses the work by pissing off the designer. but if you give the print broker an opportunity to do it right and he doesn't, do you ignore it at the client's peril (long-term) or do you tell the client you're having issues with the print broker and why?
i choose the later and use it as an opportunity to educate the client.
You make a salient point!
----
Powerpoint is not a design application
----
The Salon Design Tech
it happens occasionally, when you least expect it.
Oh I forgot to mention. He CLAIMS that he wants Illustrator files so that in case there is a change he can open it up and fix it. "To expedite the job and see it meet its print deadline"
hmmmm go figure!
"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda
so let him pay the buyout for the illustrator files. the client (nor the print broker) needs source files.
*BUT*
if you do give them to him, flatten all layers and outline fonts (wouldn't want a font problem, would we? ;)) at a minimum. that's all they should need if all they're going to do is print.
but if you're really worried about them taking source files and reusing, then let them do a buyout for the source files. this is one more reason i prefer working directly with a printer and not having the client do it. i feel more comfortable working with them w/source files, if necessary, and not worrying about them giving source files to the client.
This all depends on your position.
If you are unwilling to give out Illustrator files because you don't want working artwork going out the door, then charge for the files or just flat refuse.
If you don't want them going out the door because he can make changes, then make it clear that you are not liable for any errors when delivering in Illustrator, whether they have been altered or not.
Like I said before, I think you need to be careful here, or you may be seen as the difficult one. If he wants the files, give them to him. Outlined, images embedded, but give them to him and move on to the next job.
on the jobs I've been working on and it's a MAJOR headache.
Admittedly, I've never really been that great in Illustrator, I cut my teeth working with raster graphics in photoshop and gradually expanded to, Flash, InDesign and then finally Illustrator.
On the plus side, I'm much more confident using AI now, the file size is always small meaning there is never any need to ftp files or have them disappear in to the email ether for a few days before bouncing back to me.
It's not my preference, I have always submitted files as PDF unless specifically requested otherwise, usually as a TIFF file.
I don't like submitting editable versions of designs I've created for obvious reasons, they are not needed my a printer and I'd personally tell the broker to piss off.
Client service told me this is a losing battle. I got the artist to load back up an Illustrator file (thereby acquiescing to the broker's demands) because the client is on a fee system and has REALLY already paid for the artwork at the beginning of the year. . . :p
So I fight on bringing the word of PDF to the heathens. . . lets hope I don't become a martyr! lol
"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda
You could tell the broker that you are going to divulge added and unnecessary costs to the client unless the broker comes clean about his process. }:) It's obvious he's making extra money going to his "go to" printer but if it throws off your workflow enough your bills are going to go up; hence, unhappy client.
----
Powerpoint is not a design application
----
The Salon Design Tech
The client has already paid for the artwork in advance. 100% OUR additional artwork cost would have to be absorbed at the end of the year. . . we can't PASS that extra cost to the broker.
Put it this way. The client has bought a six pack of beer from us, but we haven't delivered yet, but its paid for in full, when we deliver the broker says 'no its the wrong BRAND of beer' so we go back and pay for a more expensive brand, BUT the client is not giving us MORE money for that new brand of beer, we have to absorb that. Its a VERY weird and convoluted situation!
This is why client service told me to forget it. . . under the fee system there is really nothing I can do to FORCE the print broker to do the agencies bidding. . .lol
"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda
I'm surprised your company would accept such a strict contract; it's highly in favor of the broker at the moment.
----
Powerpoint is not a design application
----
The Salon Design Tech
Unreal. Will he accept an illustrator friendly PDF?
The majority of our customers send in PDFs.
No PDF's. Just .ai files. Oh and saved DOWN to version 10.
"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda
oh for petes sake
Must be using a printer in LA...one of the ones on the other side of the tracks...
----
Powerpoint is not a design application
----
The Salon Design Tech