Creativebits.org

an All Creative World site
ludvik's picture
29 pencils

The USOC distroyed our idea...

Here is a little story, and probably it has not happened to many of you, but if you're in the few unlucky ones, or you want to tell me your thoughts go ahead and vent out with me.

There is a regional event every year to celebrate design and the advertising industry. Every year most of the theme is selected by a committee, and for the past 50 years it has been light hearted and most of the time the theme is a parody to a movie, event, or something like it.

This year we decided to make a little parody to an international event, an sports tournament that will be celebrated in China this year, and the word of the event starts with O-----cs and the year is 2--8. I'm sorry but I can not type the full word and the full year as it is a copyrighted word and year! After we had designed all the paper works, brochures and such, we received a call and an email from a legal representative of the USOC saying that we had to stop any materials and any further use that had anything to do with the O-----cs.

I thought it was absurd, as there is such a thing as fair of use for parody or such, but little did I know that our great congress actually passed a law in 1987 restricting any use of the O----cs and related. Thank you US Congress.

Then I went investigating and it is not only in the US, but London, Australia, China and basically... the OC has become a big mob that cannot be touch. What is wrong here?...

I'd like to hear from you to see if our whole committee was wrong in trying to make a parody of this event, which really is a non-profit and small event. Or if you think this Copyright laws have become just more money making for companies and attorneys.

Here are a few URLs that show a little of the OC absurdity throught out the world as copyrighting the use of 2012 in London!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2185961,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20071009/011050.shtml

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060116/1029257.shtml

The pursuit of life is happiness.

http://www.ludvikherrera.com

Commenting on this Forum topic is closed.

natobasso's picture
3953 pencils

They own the mark so it seems pretty cut and dried to me. The fact they cared about your use of it shows your event is substantial, but they are well within their rights as trademark and copyright holders. They pay a LOT of money in marketing the event. A lot.

If you are parodying their mark, that hurts their image. Now would you be able to stand for that if you were spending MILLIONS of dollars trying to promote it in a positive light? I don't think you would agree to that.

Try to think about the situation from their point of view and you might understand it. If you're free to parody their mark without recompense or recourse, what's to stop ANYONE from disregarding copyright/trademark law?

I'm appalled by the absurdity of the USOC 'muzzling' people and severely limiting usage of its name, links and information. It's shameful. However, I don't agree that it was okay of you and your "small non-profit" to use their logo for your own ends. Sorry.

----
Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work

ludvik's picture
29 pencils

I understand about using a brand and their logos and trademarks. Point in fact is that we didn't use the word O-----cs, neither we used the logo as it is know at all but our own version of it, that's why is a parody.

I remember Warhol using Campbell's soup for his art, and he did use the logo. Campbell's took it as piece of art and didn't get upset. Now our parody is a representation of the event as it is mentioned, not to ridicule but to pretend is the great event.

I think of it as if I created a SUPER Heroe, and call it SuperD, Should I expect a letter from DC comics saying that the Superheroe arena is owned by them and more with a name like Superman?

I think it has been several years, by standards of copyright, where the O word has really become a genericized trademark (generic trade mark, generic descriptor, or proprietary eponym, is a trademark or brand name that has become the colloquial or generic description for or synonymous with a particular class of product or service.) just like Kleenex.

Do you think is o.k. for the USOC to tell you that you cannot say Olympic proportions because is trademarked?

The pursuit of life is happiness.

http://www.ludvikherrera.com

natobasso's picture
3953 pencils

Do you think is o.k. for the USOC to tell you that you cannot say Olympic proportions because is trademarked?

If it's the law it's not up to me to say if I'm okay with it or not. I have to accept it and move on.

When you're dealing in gray areas with trademarks, the trademark owner definitely has the upper hand. Did the USOC send you and your organization a cease and decist letter? How did they contact you?

I remember Warhol using Campbell's soup for his art

Now this is an interesting example. I don't actually know the answer to this one, and Warhol's fame bugs me because he just colorized images. Not exactly ground breaking art!

An explanation of copyright law, including 'fair use' practice which allows limited usage of copyrighted works:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcopyright1.htm
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcopyright2.htm

This person's webpage was shut down by the Warhol Foundation for displaying his work:
http://www.warhol.dk/

And an answer here:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcopyright4.htm

Nominative fair use is what allows critics or authors of works of fiction to mention or show brand names without having to get permission from the trademark owner. It's another reason Warhol was safe, as a matter of trademark law, in copying the soup cans. Whether Campbell's had an enforceable copyright or not was irrelevant.

----
Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work

natobasso's picture
3953 pencils

And...http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcopyright4.htm

A close link between a mark and the associated product is essential. That's why Andy Warhol could paint pictures of Campbell's soup cans without violating Campbell's trademark rights. Campbell's owns rights in its marks with regard to selling soup. They can't stop someone from using his or her creative skills to create an image of a soup can in general, or a Campbell's soup can in particular. Warhol was selling a painting, a creative work, not soup.

If your artworks weren't a parody but referring to something else entirely, you may have had a legal leg to stand on according to this interpretation.

----
Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work

mara06's picture
2549 pencils

When Saturday Night Live (an NBC program) chooses to do a sketch targeting NBC or NBC programming and they use the NBC logo, they modify it ever so slightly.

Mara

ludvik's picture
29 pencils

Yes. We modified it, and not slightly but a lot. Then we created five characters as the characters in China (F-U-W-A's) were created, but they told us that that was also copyrighted. So I am assuming that PowerRangers, Voltron, and any other cartoon quintet is copying them?

Here are the rings we had used.

The pursuit of life is happiness.

http://www.ludvikherrera.com

ludvik's picture
29 pencils

Hey thanks for your replies. I like conversation that spruces many view points. I think I have legal standing if I wanted to pursue it. At this point this post is more of a way for me to vent my frustration. We actually changed our image and idea as we thought it was absurd and ridiculous but we do not have the time to push this issue, the event is happening in two weeks.

In any case as a descriptor tell me if they had any merit in contacting us: The event is to make it seem as a sports tournament, but it is an award ceremony where we feature graphic designers and ad agencies. We thought of doing so in the tune of the Olympiad (actually I can use this word but not the one ending in 'pics') And we used five circles with different colors and different sizes of each circle. That's why we got contacted.

We are not promoting a sport competition, nor an international competition, and it is quite obvious because of the use of the circles that it is a parody to the real logo, but is is not the logo itself.

That's all. I thank you or your comments and for the references.

The pursuit of life is happiness.

http://www.ludvikherrera.com

mara06's picture
2549 pencils

Sorry, Ludvik, but I have to side with the Olympics Committee on this one. Your group has been clearly tapping the prestige and name-recognition of the Olympics -- logo or no logo -- for your competition/award ceremony, even to the point of considering using the Olympics theme song. I wouldn't call that a parody so much as a dead rip-off. I'm not surprised they contacted you.

The Olympics Committee holds very public contests for the designs of their logos, by the way. Did you know that? (We discussed the winning London Olympics logo here when it was announced.) I imagine the fact that your event is a design competition made it even more of a problem for them.

Mara

ludvik's picture
29 pencils

Mara:

We didn't use any theme song. The only use we had is the rings as I published them before. There is no theme song, there is nothing else, just the mention of an Award Competition with the rings and that's it. Name and prestige is more because of the event.

Am I understanding correct that if you decided an event with a theme about movies, and to name it Hollywood Gala, that it would be o.k. for Hollywood Corp. to come after you?

Have you ever been invited to a theme party? not only like 60s, 70s and such but even in the sense of SatrWars fans, or any other Movie or show following. That's the same case here, this was supposed to be an O-----cs theme party. And that was all. One night, One party, and that's all.

The pursuit of life is happiness.

http://www.ludvikherrera.com

mara06's picture
2549 pencils

Sorry, I thought when you wrote "We thought of doing so in the tune of the Olympiad (actually I can use this word but not the one ending in 'pics')" you were referring to the Olympics tune, or theme song.

Mara

natobasso's picture
3953 pencils

That's why we got contacted.

Yes, but HOW did you get contacted? Letter of "Cease and Desist"? Phone call?

The gist of the last article I sent you is that if you use their copyrighted material for a totally different purpose (a parody is using it for their purpose for your own ends!) then you're okay. But your purpose, contrary to Warhol's work, plays with the copyrighted material, not the packaging, in the soup can example.

If you did a 'Warhol' to the actual O logo you'd be better off than 'parodying' it according to the Warhol example.

It's all somewhat convoluted, but the USOC is within their rights to go after you, and I can almost guarantee you don't have the money they do to take it to court...

My question to you is: Why not just create your own O-like design? Olive branches can't be copywritten, as far as I know. :)

----
Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work

ludvik's picture
29 pencils

We received a cease and decease email and phone call from a legal representative. We told them about the concept and parody, also about it being a theme party. They said that we should not use anything in reference to the logo or the name O-----cs. They said we can not have any five circles intertwined in any shape or form. That's what I called absurd.

The pursuit of life is happiness.

http://www.ludvikherrera.com

natobasso's picture
3953 pencils

If that were true, the five circles, they'd be all over the Audi logo which has four. Strange!

Their reasoning is wrong, but their actions aren't out of bounds to protect their brand.

And it's Cease and Desist, not Decease. That would mean death. :)

----
Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work

ludvik's picture
29 pencils

And it's Cease and Desist, not Decease. That would mean death. :)

That's how it sounded like ;-)

The pursuit of life is happiness.

http://www.ludvikherrera.com

KellyR's picture
525 pencils

I think some of the copyright laws and how they're enforced are absurd at times.

Take T-Mobile's trademarking of the COLOR magenta.

I believe, however, that it's trademark use is in the context of mobile phone businesses (and I believe it may be limited to Germany). But it's still just a bizarre concept to me to trademark a COLOR. Can you imagine the absurdity if some seafood restaurant trademarked the use of the color blue? They could have an excuse then to take legal actions against other seafood restaurants using the color blue in their marketing materials.

Here's an alternative view on the magenta trademark.

Like many laws out there, they seem to be double-edged swords. It helps one entity while it may harm others.

It's interesting to me, though, that the Olympics is taking such interest in your parody. You must not have changed it enough? Perhaps you should take other parodies of the Olympics as an example. Note how Blades of Glory devised an olympics-feeling logo... I wonder if they got sued for it? You'd think a big production like that with very obvious Olympic undertones would have the Olympics committee keeping a keen eye on them for any slip-ups. I'm sure they likely did everything they could to avoid a lawsuit from the USOC when creating that film, which is a blatantly obvious parody.

ludvik's picture
29 pencils

It is not my intent to crush copyright, I in particular can see the benefits as a designer. But as a designer I also see that a themed concept is just absurd to after.

Let's put it as a kid story:

You're a great designer and probably can draw really well.
Your daughter, niece, etc would like to have a party at her home, You go and buy balloons, plates and such for a Sesame Street theme party. You decide to make invitations for the party and design your own invites.
Is it absurd or o.k. if C.T.W. (Company with the rights for Sesame Street) sues you over it?

Do you think the rings above for an O-----pc theme party deserve the call from the USOC?

Like I mentioned before, It is interesting to read the responses, and also our committee has changed the whole theme altogether. So this is just to vent some of my frustrations for absurdity.

The pursuit of life is happiness.

http://www.ludvikherrera.com

mara06's picture
2549 pencils

I think you might be confused about the meaning of the words theme and parody.

In the children's theme party example that you cited, you are purchasing Sesame Street promotional materials approved by the Children's Television Workshop (CTW) for that very purpose. It's perfectly okay for you to use these things for the party. That's why they're being sold, for heaven's sake! Duh!

Your event is not such a theme party, using Olympics paraphernalia sold for the purpose of throwing an Olympics party. You are also not presenting a parody of the Olympic Games. You are simply ripping off the Olympics identity for your own contest. That is not a parody. Please look up "parody" in the dictionary. The intention has to be to poke fun at the subject in a specific context. Just imitating them doesn't constitute parody. It constitutes plagiarism. I realize that the distinction may be subtle, but most people, I assure you, know the difference.

Here's an example that might illustrate the difference.

A comedian who is well-known for his political satire (let's say it's Jon Stewart) stands in front of an audience, dressed like Hilary Clinton, complete with a blond wig, expensive designer suit, big smile, the whole bit. He then proceeds to quote something she has recently said, something that was broadcast on the news about how truthful she is being with the voters, and he does it with slight exaggerations of her voice to make it sound as if she means something quite different from what she's actually saying. The result is uproariously funny and the audience goes bonkers. That's parody.

This is not: A woman who looks a lot like Hilary Clinton gets her hair styled just like her, has it dyed to match, has a tailor make her a suit just like one Clinton is known to own, and, using a voice just like Clinton's she goes into a fancy restuarant with several friends dressed up as PR toadies. She doesn't actually claim to be Hilary Clinton, but is delighted when the restaurant staff thinks she is, and provides her and her "staff" with a free meal and extra-good service. That is NOT parody.

Your event falls somewhere between these two extremes, which is a very uncomfortable place to be.

Mara

ludvik's picture
29 pencils

The event has been done for 50 years. Every year there is a theme to the party, this year we wanted the event to be themed The O-----cs, past themes include Wizard of Oz, Rock of the 50s, Hollywood Golden Years, Hawaii 5.0, etc.

It is a themed party.

It happens to be that we send invitations with the theme to everyone that will be participating.

If you read my example of the Party for girls I said that what happened if the invitation was not purchased and your daughter or yourself designed it and send it to her friends.

So basically under no circumstance anyone, not even little kids should try to imitate or copy any brands or characters, right?

Did you go to high school or junior high or elementary school and ever draw on your books or notebooks a character that you liked, or a brand that you enjoyed? Is it o.k. for the companies to come and suit you?

That's with fair of use come to play.

The pursuit of life is happiness.

http://www.ludvikherrera.com

natobasso's picture
3953 pencils

You're applying logic that doesn't quite work.

In the 70s and 80s the recording industry tried to shut down taping of their LP's/Vinyl but they soon realized the practice was so widespread they would lose money trying to sue everyone. It was still illegal technically to copy lps to tape, but people did it anyway. I see this as most equivalent as kids doodling on their notebooks.

What you're doing is much more widespread. Since the event's been around for 50 years it's on the USOC radar. This is much different than kids doodling. It's one professional organization (with money, there's the difference!) using another's branding to its own ends.

Read more about fair use here. I think the dividing line between copyright and fair use is a blurry one, but it usually comes down to money. If you're making money with the usage, it's infringement. :)

----
Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work

mara06's picture
2549 pencils

Again, sorry. When you wrote "You go and buy balloons, plates and such for a Sesame Street theme party" I assumed you meant you would be buying Sesame Street-themed party supplies. You said nothing about the hand-made invitations copying Sesame Street images in these hand-made invitations.

I think we're really splitting hairs here, Ludvik. The fact is that your event tweaked the Olympics Committee and they set their legal department on you. So now you know your boundaries. If I were thee, I would respect them.

A kid doodling Mickey Mouse in a textbook is a far cry from grownups holding a big public event using (or shall we say very closely adapting, wink wink nudge nudge) someone else's copyrighted materials.

Mara

pokie's picture
1198 pencils

I don't know dude. I'd talk to a lawyer.

Creativebits is a blog about creativity, design and Macs. We also have a critique section where you can post your work to get opinions and a forum to discuss any design related topics.

Recommend us on Google

Latest critique

Do you need a great new logo?

If you need a logo for your company or product you can get it done with us.
In our logo store you can pick from over 28,000 pre-made logos that will be customized to your name for free or you can post a contest for us for just $250 and our designers from all over the world will submit dozens of logo design suggestions to your specific needs.

Marketplace