Who Owns Logo
spongebob (6 pencils) | Tue, 2011-03-08 20:24A few years back, I created a logo for a marketing company. I was paid as a free lance artist (1099). We didn't have any sort of contract as to who owns files/etc. And I did give them the vector file.
Now I do marketing/design company and have their logo in my site under my portfolio. They are requesting I take it off since "I designed it while working for them".
Do I have to take it off, or can I leave it, since I am under the impression that since there is no contract I technically have all rights to the logo.
Help!
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They own the logo, but you retain certain rights by default unless it has been specifically exempted in a contract. Designers regardless of the setup they work in can show their work in their porti with the sole purpose of getting more work. Therefore you're in the clear. I have been asked by clients to pull stuff and I did, because it was not worth the fight, but legally they can't force you.
My opinion: Logos, by their nature, belong to the company you develop them for. They are proprietary. It's their company logo. You designed it for them, but it belongs to them.
As far as the rights to put it on your site, that's a different matter. The fact that there was no rights and usage contract complicates things a bit. I suppose that the fact that they are a marketing company contributes to the reason they want it taken off your site.
I'd make it clear (both to them and to those viewing your portfolio) that you don't "own" the logo, but you are the designer of it, and leave it as that. The only way they can force you to remove it is with a cease and desist letter.
In the future, I'd specify. I have a catch-all agreement in the Terms of Service on my site that addresses this that states: "Rights and usage for each project will belong exclusively to e-zign Design Group and/or each contributor unless specified otherwise."
I've run into this issue before and this phrase, sitting on my site, has saved my ass more than once.
Hope this helps.
Terrell Thornhill
e-zign Design Group
Tell them to kick rocks and to pound sand.
Given you created it, and given you were never told otherwise - the law in most countries / states would say that you have a right to use the works under "fair use" policy. Technically if anything, you could make the bigger stink given you never expressly signed over complete ownership rights to the client.
Furthermore, you may want to explain to them that they'll run the risk of creating ill will in the community by bullying a contractor with no legal grounds to do so. My guess is they're bluffing and will not want to proceed further legal action anymore than you.
Simply showing a design in a portfolio does NOT constitute re-publication or re-sale.
My golden rule always is, "If someone doesn't say you can't - assume you can."
It's always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. And yes, I realize that is somewhat callous but this is pretty black and white as far as I'm concerned.
Exactly it's good to specify the use of the work on designer's portfolio and signed for both. I think you have to try some negociation indeed like a period, one year something else still they rethink this issue.
yes I'm brazilian xD
You can put your own work on your own portfolio, unless otherwise legally agreed .
Anything else is simply bullwhack.
Graphic Design Manchester
It depends on the contract. The copy right (at least in Germany) stays with you (and can not be sold). But if you gave them the usage rights they can prevent you from using it. BUT - a portfolio may be difficult to explain as "usage" in front of court, especially because it is your work and no one else was included (as you wrote you did the work as a freelancer).
I think you can use it in your portfolio.
Are your legal rights more important than any future business from that client?
Are your legal rights more important than any potential negative feedback from potential clients that happen to ask the client for their thoughts on your work?
Unless this is one heck of a logo, my personal opinion is that keeping a client happy even long after the engagement is worth more than a single image in your portfolio. You never know who knows who and where word of a negative experience is going to travel.
Well put, sherpa.
From success to failure is one step. From failure to success is a long road.
I'm with creativesherpa on this one, though I'd suggest that if the logo is an important piece in your portfolio then you sit down with the company and talk it through. It may be that if you make it explicit that you were working for them at the time, or provide context around the logo, or even a link to them with a little background info, they relax about you using it.
YES, you must remove it!
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there's really not enough information here to answer your question, nor can we be sure what country you're in, since you didn't say, and that can affect an answer based on individual country's copyright laws (and none of us are actual lawyers, so keep that in mind as well).
you said you "worked for them as a freelancer." what does that mean? (a) does that mean they hired you specifically to create a logo as an outside designer? or (b) does that mean they brought you in as a contractor to work on designs for them and the logo is one of those designs?
again, i'm not a lawyer, but i'm pretty sure that while situation (a) would give you some legal rights to the design, situation (b) (in the US, at least), would make the situation "work for hire" and they would own all rights to the work you did (just as if you were an actual employee designing for them).
as far as "fair use," i'm not really sure that applies here at all.
If you designed it - you can exhibit it as your work as long as you're not making any money off it (ie: selling t-shirts with the logo) - whether they own the rights or not. This sounds like an ego situation to me - the marketing company doesn't want anyone to know they didn't design the logo themselves. As someone above said - if it's not that important to your portfolio - pull it as a courtesy to a former client (or take it off the website, but leave it in your physical book;). If you think it's a valuable commodity to your company and you're not afraid to lose whatever potential business the company might give you in the future - leave it in. There's no legal recourse for them.
But generally - whenever you create a logo - sell the rights to the client along with the art. That's the kind of fight you don't need and will ruin your rep faster than some minor spat over a portfolio piece. Make sure you get some money for the rights along with the original art fee (and make them aware that's why it's going to cost a little more) - and let it go. It's a baby bird that's taking flight. You're the heartbroken mother who raised it from an egg - but you know it's best if the bird faces the world on it's own. Every now and then it will show up in your portfolio - but you're letting the bird leave the nest forever (sniff). Know that when you hand it over.
Great answer. You are correct, they are probably don't want anybody to know they didn't design the logo themselves. And it's no longer a client, they are now my direct competitor, as we both do the same thing now.
Yes - I suspected as much. It's very rare for a client to WANT you to pull something from your portfolio unless it's reflecting badly on them for some reason. It's basically free advertising for them otherwise. As I said though - you have a compromise position if you want - pull it from the website, but continue to show it in your book or thru PDF files or however else you privately show your work to individual clients.
They commissioned and paid you for the logo this is binding contract, they could mount a legal challenge, whilst this is unlikely is it really worth getting into a fight?
If you have now become a direct competitor to them it seems obvious why they have asked you to remove it, by featuring work you have done for one of their clients on your website portfolio you could harm a relationship with their customer should they see it.
When i used to freelance (a few years ago now!) most agencies expected confidentiality and I would always ask them if it was ok to featured the work i had created for them on my own web portfolio. If they said no I would respect that. If a client knows they can trust you and you do a good job they will give you more work as possibly referrals.
My advice is respect their wishes, apologise and remove it, don't make an enemy of this other design / marketing agency because a turf war isn't going to help either of you.
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Take it off, immediately unless you want to risk legal action.
Legally, your actions transferred the ownership to the marketing agency where you were paid a fee in exchange for a service and original creative files. Your actions result in an implied contract and proving otherwise would be quite challenging on your part without a serious intellectual property attorney. You're better off letting it go and including a contract for future business transactions - expressly stating NO RIGHTS OR PRIVILEGES are transferred unless "specific conditions" are met.
Jimmy // Full Color Business Cards
no, that is not how copyright law works in the US. if you hold copyright for the work (i.e., this was not 'work for hire' as an employee), the artist holds the copyright unless they explicitly transfer copyright.
while i agree it's good to spell these things out in a contract (it ensures the client understands how things work), lack of spelling it out in a contract does not implicitly transfer the copyright.
The best is to ask a lawyer for this. They can tell you what should you do.
I do agree with above comment, as far as it is not mentioned in contract, one can show his or her work in their portfolio. I
Only a lawyer can tell you what is right.
I agree with Tonyta.