who's at fault (just curious)
b22any (15 points) | Thu, 2008-01-17 02:35I am new to logo development and graphic design and I am wondering if i can get some feedback from people who have more experience than I. If a client approves a business card design and is goes to print missing some information, Who is at fault? I'm sort of having a moral dilemma; any feedback would be appreciated!
That has to be one of the worse scenarios. Of course it's the client's fault, but they don't want to hear that, especially if they have to answer to someone over them. What I've done in cases with "reasonable" people is worked out a deal. You could either give them the print at cost if you're worried about losing them, give them a credit on future design and/or print, or if they're going to prove to be a royal pain in the --- give them the Hail Mary, invoice them, and when they don't pay write it off as a bad debt after furiously statementing them to death.
ttfn!
3dogmama
"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber
If you have an approval on the creative before it's been sent to press, it's the client's fault. If he trusted you to make sure all the information he provided will be on the card an you messed up, it's your fault.
Have yourself a checklist. Something like this:
1. Is what I am seeing the correct design y/n
2. Did I get someone else to throw a fresh eye on it (if possible) y/n
3. Did I check spelling, punctuation marks, name spelling? y/n
4. Did I run through all the technical stuff (bleed, trim, colors, overprint) etc y/n
5. Did I get a signed approval from the client as a HARD COPY if possible? y/n
6. Did I get an approval that I can have on record BEFORE sending out? y/n
and so on. Hope this helps.
"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda
I feel very strongly that if the client gives final approval on an project and it goes to press with errors, that the client is 100% responsible. But it is very important to keep records of client approval and it is also a good idea to create an email signature that is basically a disclaimer stating this fact. But on the flip side, I am very passionate about attention to detail....obviously it is best to prevent this from ever happening, but it does happen. And of course if the client is a long-term client, then it is wiser financially to appease the customer than to lose them. But if you explain clearly to the client that they DID indeed give final approval and that it is their responsibility to make sure the project is exactly the way they want it before they give approval...you just need to handle it tactfully and graciously. One last comment...I have learned over the years that if you bend on anything at any point that you set a precedent for the future. You come across as more professional, competent and confident if you stand your ground...it may be a hard pill for the client to swallow at first, but in the end they will be more comfortable working with someone who conveys professionalism.
Totally agree, well said. The most important thing you can do is insist on getting final approvals in writing. A verbal "looks great" is NOT an approval. It may be easy to say OK and proceed, but you're leaving yourself vulnerable. If things get nasty having an approval in writing is your best asset.
Do a search for "design sign off sheet" and you'll find some verbage to help put it together. It should be different depending on the type of design work you're doing. Better yet, pick up a copy of the book "The Business Side of Creativity". It has plenty of sample forms and great information for freelancers.
Beyond that, as others have said - tact, grace and an honest assessment of what that client means to your business will get you through. Good luck.
I know what you're both saying. My clients sign off on everything, but sometimes you're faced with a person who simply refuses to accept blame, one who is prone to finger-pointing. You'll know best how to deal with your client. Hopefully the person you're conducting business with is a straight shooter and will shoulder the costs of a reprint.
Just ensure that the artwork for the reprint is error-free!
ttfn!
3dogmama
"Art -- the one achievement of Man which has made the long trip up from all fours seem well advised." - James Thurber
I've been there before and I just paid for the reprint. It was my fault. The client gave me the phone number and I typed it wrong. If the client gave you the wrong info then it's definitely their fault.
Actually, this was a one-off job and the client got mad because I didn't immediately say I'd pay for it. I didn't want to work with her in the future but I was definitely in the wrong so I paid. If you decide to not pay and it's your fault and you burn the bridge, word always seems to come back around and bite you in the ass!
Without the signed approval, you will have to eat the cost, but if the client examined and approved a proof, and that's exactly what printed, the industry standard is that they are obliged to pay.
I agree that for the sake of keeping this client (should you wish to), it would be nice of you to withdraw your markup and offer to fix the mistake without further charge, but they will be liable for payment in full (including your markup) for the reprint.
Mara
If your signed contract specifically states that the client is responsible for errors after proof approval, they are at fault. If you didn't include this statement, you are at fault. There's no dilemma here.
You did have a contract, right?
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Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work
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The Salon Design Tech
As a graphic designer, the client always relies on you to do your job to the fullest, that includes proofing everything and raising concerns the client may not have caught. However.....if the client is being unreasonable, CUT THEM LOOSE. Print out the final approval form he signed off on and hand it to the client with your final invoice. Thank them for their business and apologize that the business relationship didnt work between you two.
Some clients are wacky. Its not worth it working with clients like that, especially if its something so minuscule like business cards. Chances are that the next graphic designer who tries to work with him will likely go through the same dilemma. Heck, it may be me!
How can you say 'cut them loose' when you don't even know who's at fault yet?
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Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work
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The Salon Design Tech
Allow me to clarify that. If he DISCOVERS or FEELS like that the client is at fault and cannot make a reasonable deal to fix the problem with the client, then I feel he should consider cutting the client loose. I have dealt with stubborn clients that refuse to admit being at fault because they don't want to dish out more money to fix the problem, even though my contract states that they are responsible for any errors after approving the final art proofs.
Why deal with a client who is willing to waste your time and question your business ethics to save a buck? Of course, thats only if the client is being unreasonable.
I understood completely what you said, but why jettison a client if you don't know if they are at fault or not?
In this case, if it's the client's fault and they won't pay -- I agree it's time to settle up and cut them loose.
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Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work
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The Salon Design Tech
Agreed!
"Thank you for coming. . .
I'll see you in hell!"
-Apu with Shotgun on the roof of the Quikiemart. . .
LOL
"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda
One thing I can tell you for sure is that *I'm* not at fault.
I mean, I was sick that day, my cat ate my computer, I remember telling someone it was wrong and he said he'd tell you, and...
You know what's worse? When you get into a situation like that within a company, when a coworker plays CYA at your expense.
Yuck.
High-five for including morals in your quest for the answer (which, sadly, may not involve the truth).
OMG you're cracking me up. :)
In the case of CYA at work, save ALL emails and keep your superiors appraised of your progress at all times. Then no one can screw with your credibility.
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Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work
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The Salon Design Tech
lol USE it! :)
"Try not, Do! or do not, there is no try."
-Yoda
Thank you, all of this has been helpful. It is difficult because I was doing design work for a friend of the family. It is for a small start-up business. Not much money was lost in the deal but I now realize how a silly mistake could have been crucial. "The Business side of Creativity" will be on my shopping list! And this forum will be saved in my favorites! any further info on contracts or examples would be appreciated!
This all involved a friend of the family?!
Eeep.
I have a project I may take on w/ a personal friend, and I'm kind of itchy about it for reasons like this exactly.
On the other hand, I do usually feel that I have my friend/family cap on top of my service provider cap. So I go in knowing that I'm doing someone a "favor," and may never see a penny or have anything worth including in my portfolio.
Then again, you never know.
:)
From 0 dollars on up, ALWAYS have a contract. Believe me, it saves a lot of hassle down the road; tells you both what's expected.
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Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work
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The Salon Design Tech
Right. I was sick last week and was watching People's Court... even if it's free, get a contract!!!!!!!!!!! They can sue you even if you did it free. oy.
Try these links:
http://www.creativelatitude.com/links/index.html
http://www.creativelatitude.com/links/resources_downloads.html
And search this site for 'contract' and you'll find a TON of links on the subject.
And remember ESPECIALLY if it's family you need to have a contract. No exceptions. Even for FREE work you must have a contract. It lets you and the client know what your responsibilities are and resolves any conflicts in same down the road.
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Powerpoint is not a design application
My latest web design work
----
The Salon Design Tech