Switching from Illustrator to InDesign

Unless the software program has changed, Illy is only set up to do one page at a time, which would prove to be a nightmare for anyone setting up and ripping a multi-page document, let alone dealing with graphics that run across the gutter(s).

Personally, I like both programs, and employ the strengths of both. I use Illy for vectors and ID for layout. This works for me. However, perhaps your department should check with the end users--printers and clients--to find out what their preference is. I have one printer who won't work with ID files, only Quark, thus I've resorted to producing PDFs for everything I do with him.

"Those who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music."

I would say if you are creating just ads and logo's for your clients I would stay with illustrator.

Much more creativity, use of brushes and so on.

If you are creating booklets, magazines and other multipage docs I would say go to InDesign.

Both apps have their advantages. It is the idea of the suite.

Choose your progs and use them in the perspective of the endresult.

Pdf-settings are shared by all the progs in the suite.

My idea of the programs in the suite is:

Photoshop: everything pixel orientated
Illustrator: for everything that needs creativity
InDesign: The workhorse for bringing everything (pixels & vectors & text) together in a multipage layout or a trifold
Dreamweaver: same idea as InDesign but for the web
Flash: Everything that has webmotion

It is not a good idea of forcing people to use a certain program in favor of another, They all have their dis- and advantages.

Use indesign for multi-page layouts. If you are doing a single page layout of a package design I urge you to stay with illustrator.

Also, check with your printer(s) to see what files they prefer.

Style Sheets:
Ask them to make a 10 page document in the program of their choice. Then tell them to make 1 minor change - e.g. the color or style of a headline. BUT they have to make that change in less than 20 seconds. You then demonstrate how you could do that - and numerous other changes to the typography instantly. Any designer seeing document wide changes applied instantly understands its power and time-saving capabilities. If they don't, they're simply amateurs.

I agree with what most people have said. Both programs are great apps but it's really like comparing apples to oranges.

Mult-page most definitely has to be InDesign and you can import your AI and Pshop files til the cows come home.

Like Macgruder said, style sheets are specific to ID. At my last job, we spent months on an annual report. So many details within that one document. Right before going to print, the client decided they wanted to change the fonts. We changed the style sheet and minus a couple minor revisions, it was corrected. That wouldn't be so easy in AI.

Hope this helps and hope your transition is smooth.

If you're doing multipage docs, you need to use InDesign rather than Illustrator. Use Illustrator only for individual images that you import into InDesign.

I can't imagine what a nightmare it must be to use Illustrator for multipage docs.

If you run into commercial printers who dislike InDesign (as I have, which is why I still use Quark a lot), you can make perfectly good PDF files for them in any of the Creative Suite applications.

It sounds as if your design team may be more graphics oriented, with not so much experience in typesetting and layouts in general. Please consider writing some basic training in these disciplines into your prospectus, along with purely InDesign workshops.

You might also want to spend some time talking about how much more efficiently InDesign handles color separations over Illustrator, if that's an issue in the kind of work you produce.

Good luck! Sounds like you're going to meet some resistance, no matter how good a case you build. Your native charm will get a workout, so limber up those empathy muscles, and stock up on chocolate, just in case!

MS will release Paint'09 suite next year, it will make this stuff look primitive!

http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com

Have them try exporting a pdf from Illustrator, then from ID. They will start using ID for layouts because all you have to do is Command + E for export (and choose a pdf setting, preferrably X-1a.)

Illustrator is not a good program for layouts. It's a vector ILLUSTRATION program.

Also, have them make any global document change across all their pages in illustrator and see how long it takes. Then do it in ID. They will change their tune in a heartbeat when they see how much faster it is in ID to make global changes.

----
Natobasso
dirtandrust.com
"Powerpoint is not a design application"

Using "Multi-page" documents as an "excuse" to try InDesign is going to fail because they're just going to tell you that Illustrator CS4 supports multi-page documents (which technically it doesn't, they're multi-artboards not pages), so there's no reason to try InDesign.

InDesign is a LAYOUT app, Photoshop is an IMAGE EDITOR, and Illustrator is an ILLUSTRATION app. It's that simple. There is not a single case when using Illustrator is better or easier than using InDesign for single or multiple-page layouts. Someone said it perfectly, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

If you're in charge of the department, don't recommend, don't set a resolution, don't ask. Just flat out tell them. You have 3 months to learn InDesign because on April 1st that's all you're going to use for anything more than a illustration and logo design work (and image editing, of course). If they don't like it, they're welcome to use the three months to look for a new job.

Sometimes it's too easy to fall into the trap of not wanting to risk losing good people, or hurting feelings, or coming off as a jerk, by making such a demand. That's bullshit. There are a TON of great designers and production artists out there looking for work. If the crew you have don't like it, fuck 'em. Find some that already know how to use InDesign. They teach it in every design school for cryin out loud, so you won't have a problem finding great people.

The BEST part of this business is change. Every designer expects/wants/demands it of their clients - yet they sometimes forget that change is a two-way-street!

Move all of your links into a different folder.
See which relink automatically...that should send people scrambling for indesign.
The automatic packaging of fonts important, as well—an indesign-only feature.

It just boggles my mind when I encounter graphic artists who insist on doing all their layout work in either Illustrator or Photoshop.

I think it was stated pretty clearly here:

InDesign is for layout
Photoshop is for image editing and manipulation
Illustrator is for illustration

I honestly find Illustrator extremely clunky and annoying when it comes to page layout. It's just not as intuitive as InDesign with how it handles large bodies of text, etc.

We use InDesign for all our ad designs here, I'm talking single-page ads. And, of course, we use InDesign for all multi-page layouts as well.

Photoshop and Illustrator are only used to create supporting images for the InDesign layouts.

In fact, we're flat out required to do everything in InDesign. I swear if I catch an artist here doing an entire layout in either Photoshop or Illustrator, I'll have to have a long chat with them, as it's annoying as hell to have to go back and make edits to such designs. I'm guilty if that myself! A couple of times I did a near entire layout in Photoshop and just about wanted to throttle myself when I had to go back to make some changes.

In any case, good luck to you in trying to prove your point. I think Mara said it best -if you have to convince the upper crust managers to make using InDesign a policy, simply talk saved time in production and increased profits, and they should be game.

Just prepare yourself for a lot of whining from the designers when that policy takes effect. ;)

As others above have said, it's not the employee's choice. They need to use a proper layout program. InDesign is the standard today and they should be excited to add to their skills.
So, help them to be successful. Purchase a few books, dvds or online training to facilitate the change. Give them an hour a day for education. Let them share their knowledge with each other. InDesign is a great, easy to learn program. Your company will get payback very quickly.

Just let them spend a week with InDesign and I guarantee they'll be wondering why they didn't take it up earlier.

In my opinion, InDesign should be used for ALL layouts - from single page ads, large format stuff, flyers, multiple page brochures... everything!

Illustrator and Photoshop are just the backup tools.

Advantages for Indesign in a nutshell:

• Easier multi-user editing.
• PDf export is superbly simple.
• Typography manipulation is second to none.
• Excellent, intuitive interface and menus.
• Collection of fonts and jobs is simple.
• Character styles and 'one-click-changes-all' - essential for fast workflow.
• Nested styles (Look it up on Google). Ace for catalogue work.

I'm sure there's more and I hope this thread has given you a good enough reason the get them numpties into shape! ;)

Before I could send my proposal to management, they came to ME asking this VERY same question. It seems one of our printers AND one of our CLIENTS had put in a request for a booklet in December and when one of the artists did it, he did it in Illustrator. BOTH the printer AND the client have requested that in the future ALL multi page documents be built and paginated in InDesign! So I have been sitting with this artist since last week re-building this booklet in InDesign (it is with its challenges of course. . . it wasn't done properly in Illustrator to begin with!) But I am battling with HUGE resistance and I can't understand why. . . well, yes I can. . . its still fear. . . so when THIS exercise is done I will use that as a case study for the rest of the department.

In the end IF one client has requested it and our MAIN printer has requested it, its definitely GOING to happen whether they like it or not!

Hehee - it's funny when people get all bent out of shape over making changes. You'd think the stress they put themselves through over these things wouldn't be worth it to them.

Not asking them to donate a limb, just asking them to do their work in a different - and WAAAAAY more efficient - program.

I'd maybe see some moaning and groaning (and agree with it) if you were telling them all to start doing everything in PowerPoint or Word.

it's funny. i don't know what the job market is like in T&T, but if someone refused to do something like that at my company, they'd be told to do it right or be replaced.

I would use InDesign more, but it runs worse than any other program on my mac. Illustrator, Photoshop, Dreamweaver and Quark are all absolutely fine, but InDesign tends to lag sometimes as if it is too man resources (wether this is the case, I don't know). I can run all the above mentioned programmes and more without any issues, but InDesign always causes me problems.

I do think Illustrator has its' niche with certain single layout docs, but while I keep having issues with InDesign, I'll stick with Quark (even with the PDF and colour conversion issues that come with it)

Well I run all the other apps simultaneously, but would love to know why I have these issues - I have 4GB RAM and plenty of HD space. I do preview in high quality, but it even stumbles when I'm scrolling with only text on the screen. Will viewing in high quality slow it down even if only the text is visible?

I'll try that and hopefully it will make it a bit easier - thanks for the tip. Didn't realise it affected the file rather than what's displaying on screen.